Been nabbed by the police for illegal towing

[vannut]

I have just discovered this site and post, and find it very interesting, as I run a Transit 115/350 car transporter and have just bought a trailer for it. now I have just had a long conversation with VOSA over this problem. after 30 mins on the phone they ended up agreeing with me and apologising, that so long as the train weight is not exceeded, I can put what I like on the trailer. this is because if they were to try and take you to court under this law, it would make every HGV on the road illegal, while truck has a plated weight of somewhere upto 44 ton it's design weight is way above that, the same with a trailer, so the MAM would be somewhere in the region of 100 tons, This needs testing in court and I will be happy to go that route as soon as I get pulled, infact before that I will be getting intouch with the local plod to try and sort this out. because the way the law stands, there doing you for something you might do , not what you have done.

I don't think this would ever get to court. It's not a case whereby it needs testing in court, there is nothing to test. There isn't a regulation that they could summons you for contravening. What it needs is VOSA having some proper training. It's not a case that is open to interpretation, the law is quite specific.

[Mikebeasley]

Hi All,
I have just waded through 11 pages of excellent information but have a poser myself that I can't find answers to in the pages. I did try to avoid asking something that had already been asked but failed methinks.

I have a T280 MWB fully fitted with tow bar and electrics etc.
However, it is ex MOD and as such has no vin plates or plates on the footwells etc. There is only the visible vin in the window.
My V5 shows EX MOD veh and as such has no mass or gross or any other type of weights listed. It's a 2ltr Diesel if thats relevant.

Can anyone with the correct figures enlighten me?
Oh, just to make it more fun, it's the crew cab 5 seats and windows type on a 53 plate.

Hope someone can help,
Cheers,
Mike

[darkbluevanman]

You only need a licence if you passed your test after 1997, is that correct?

Yes

Phew![/quote]

I looked at this and thought 'spence aint no pup, what's he on abart?'.... took a while to register, guess it went compleatly over the top of the rest of 'em

[ake]

Hi All,
I have just waded through 11 pages of excellent information but have a poser myself that I can't find answers to in the pages. I did try to avoid asking something that had already been asked but failed methinks.

I have a T280 MWB fully fitted with tow bar and electrics etc.
However, it is ex MOD and as such has no vin plates or plates on the footwells etc. There is only the visible vin in the window.
My V5 shows EX MOD veh and as such has no mass or gross or any other type of weights listed. It's a 2ltr Diesel if thats relevant.

Can anyone with the correct figures enlighten me?
Oh, just to make it more fun, it's the crew cab 5 seats and windows type on a 53 plate.

Hope someone can help,
Cheers,
Mike

The Max Gross Vehicle weight will be around 2800kg and the Max Train Weight will be 3500kg

[Mikebeasley]

Hi Ake, thanks for the reply, it's appreciated.
Mike.

[damion.p]

Hello, what a fantastic and useful thread!
You may be able to help me, its not transit related, but is towing,

Myself and partner wants to get a little trailer for our car for when we go to shows and camping,

My question is- I have been told, that if the combined weight is less than 3.5t, and the trailer loaded weighs less than 85% of the car we are ok to tow with out doing a trailer test,

Is this right??

[sc_BK]

Myself and partner wants to get a little trailer for our car for when we go to shows and camping,

My question is- I have been told, that if the combined weight is less than 3.5t, and the trailer loaded weighs less than 85% of the car we are ok to tow with out doing a trailer test,

Is this right??

You can tow with a combined gross weight up to 3.5ton, OR a trailer with a gross weight up to 750kg

Most of the "camping" type trailers from halfords etc have a gross weight of only 500kg or so anyway

[damion.p]

Cheers

[(ROG)]

Myself and partner wants to get a little trailer for our car for when we go to shows and camping,

My question is- I have been told, that if the combined weight is less than 3.5t, and the trailer loaded weighs less than 85% of the car we are ok to tow with out doing a trailer test,

Is this right??

You can tow with a combined gross weight up to 3.5ton, OR a trailer with a gross weight up to 750kg

Not quite correct
You can tow on a B licence without having the +E but there are specific rules to this

As stated - the total of the combination (actual weight) must not exceed 3.5 tonnes OR the towing vehicle is 3.5 tonnes or under and the trailer is not over 750kgs

Now some more rules
The kerb or unladen weight of the TRAILER and it's load must not exceed the actual weight of the TOWING VEHICLE
The MAM or plated weight also has a bearing and is best explained below
MAM = the maximum weight that the vehicle or trailer can be when put onto a weighbridge might be a good explanation

Towing with vehicles under 3.5 tonnes

Category B: Vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes MAM and with up to eight passenger seats
Category B vehicles may be coupled with a trailer up to 750kgs MAM (allowing a combined weight up to 4.25 tonnes MAM) or a trailer over 750kgs MAM provided the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle, and the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes MAM.

For example:

•a vehicle with an unladen weight of 1.25 tonnes and a MAM of 2 tonnes coupled with a trailer with a MAM of 1.25 tonnes could be driven by the holder of a category B entitlement. This is because the MAM of the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes and also the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the drawing vehicle
Whereas

•the same vehicle with an unladen weight of 1.25 tonnes and a MAM of 2 tonnes when coupled with a trailer with a MAM of 1.5 tonnes would fall within category B+E. This is because although the combined weight of the vehicle and trailer is within the 3.5 tonnes MAM limit, the MAM of the trailer is more than the unladen weight of the drawing vehicle
•Vehicle manufacturers normally recommend a maximum weight of trailer appropriate to their vehicle. Details can usually be found in the vehicle's handbook or obtained from car dealerships. The size of the trailer recommended for an average family car with an unladen weight of around 1 tonne would be well within the new category B threshold.

[(ROG)]

What happens if your trailer isn't plated?

This is a long thread so not sure if answered already but -
It would then go on the load rating of the tyres

Same applies to a towing vehicle or what the manufacturer has listed as to what the max weight can be

[Backbone of Britain]

Hello, what a fantastic and useful thread!
You may be able to help me, its not transit related, but is towing,

Myself and partner wants to get a little trailer for our car for when we go to shows and camping,

My question is- I have been told, that if the combined weight is less than 3.5t, and the trailer loaded weighs less than 85% of the car we are ok to tow with out doing a trailer test,

Is this right??

With regards to towing without a trailer test, it depends on when you passed your driving test.

[(ROG)]

With regards to towing without a trailer test, it depends on when you passed your driving test.

Not quite correct as you can tow on a B licence without having the +E

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/Dr ... G_10013073

Happy reading

[davev6newman]

Going off on a slight tangent here, but where do you stand on speed and using the outside lane when towing? I mention this because i was following a Citroen Relay LWB high top with a twin axle trailer carrying a VW Passatt doing over 80 in the fast lane, then weaving between lanes doing over 70 and cutting people up, obviously forgetting hes got a trailer on.

[(ROG)]

Going off on a slight tangent here, but where do you stand on speed and using the outside lane when towing? I mention this because i was following a Citroen Relay LWB high top with a twin axle trailer carrying a VW Passatt doing over 80 in the fast lane, then weaving between lanes doing over 70 and cutting people up, obviously forgetting hes got a trailer on.

No vehicle towing any trailer is legally allowed to use the outer lane of any motorway with more than 2 lanes
The max legal speed limit on a motorway when towing is 60 mph
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTr ... /DG_070304 - rule 124

[(ROG)]

Was meant to do a job earlier for a friend, he wanted his Landrover Discovery transported to a garage as it had a knackered TXB, this is the sort of work I often do, towing stuff on trailers. I passed my test after Jan 97 but took the B+E test and have that license, allowing me to tow weights upto the vehicle's GTW.

Some facts about the weights as I understood them, I thought I had it all figured out as I wanted to be legal for towing as I do alot of it:

I have a Mk5 SWB 150 rated at 5,200kg GTW

I got the van on a weighbridge a while back with a full tank of fuel, a usual supply of tools and me in it, and it weighed just under 2200kg, I never have more than this in it for towing. So we can safely assume my 'job ready' kerb weight is under 2200kg.

I use a Brian James trailer which is plated at 3000kg, and weighs 750kg... it has a load capacity of 2250kg

This (I thought) left me legal as my GTW would be at the specified 5,200kg, and my B+E entitlement means that the MAM of the trailer doesn't have to be less than the unladen weight of the towing vehicle.

I got pulled over and taken to a weighbridge just a couple of miles after leaving, which was a first for me. The GTW with the landrover on the trailer come in at 4941kg... great I thought, on my way...... no

The copper then informs me that the combined weight of the MAM of the trailer (which I knew the MAM would be used not the actual weight if it's lower) and the MAM of the towing vehicle is over the GTW. I wasn't aware that the weights for the towing vehicle were the MAM weights, I thought it was actual weight.

It turns out that the MAM of my van is 3200kg, leaving only 2000kg MAM remaining for legal towing... this is quite useless for me. If I get a lightweight trailer of around ~500kg, the most I can legally tow is 1500kg weight on the back? meaning that towing the likes of large vehicles like Landrovers and Transits is impossible

In all fairness the coppers that got me were very reasonable, they took into consideration that I was simply misunderstood about the towing weights and was indeed fully licensed and made every attempt I was aware of to be legal. They didn't give me any fine or points, but had to escort me back.

This is a major blow for me, I get a fair bit of work towing Landrovers about, and now I find I can't do it legally. Is there any LEGAL way of reducing my van's GVW and keeping the 5200kg GTW? I never go over 2500kg with the van on it's own, so if I could reduce it's MAM to that whilst keeping the GTW at 5200kg I would have a towing weight of 2700kg, which would be much more manageable. Is that atall possible? I'm gutted!

I can tell you now that the police had it all WRONG

I have contacted my EXPERT at VOSA on this and he suggests that the cops read the legislation on GVWs and GTWs

As long as the GVW is not exceeded on the towing vehicle or the trailer and the distribution of the weights between the two is not deemed unsafe then as long as the GTW is not exceeded - IT IS LEGAL for the WEIGHT in the situation described in the quoted text above

THE LICENCE REQUIRED
This is where adding both the GVWs comes into play
If both GVWs added together are under 7.5 tonnes then it is a B+E licence
If they had added up to more than 7.5 tonnes then a C1+E would be required

Example of C1+E would be a van with GVW of 3.5 tonnes and a trailer with GVW of 4.5 tonnes even if the set up was a van with a GTW of 5.2 tonnes where the van actually weighed 3 tonnes and the trailer actually weighed 2 tonnes - legal for GTW but not for a B+E licence

LICENCES go on the possible maximum weights of a vehicle or combination
GROSS TRAIN WEIGHTS (GTWs) and GROSS VEHICLE WEIGHTS (GVWs) are limits not to be exceeded

Don't you love these wonderful laws

Hope that helps clear this up albeit a year or so late !!