Been nabbed by the police for illegal towing

[MrMPuk]

isnt the maximum towing capacity for the lower rated vans (260/280/300) 1500kg MAX (so long as its within train weight)? It certainly is for the earlier 80/100/120s.

From the number above I doubt it's even that much.

[bj928]

this MAM weight is bollocks, how can they do you for towing an empty trailer because the MAM is over, i'm sure it would get laughed out of court, and as long as all axles are under their legal max weight any GTV/GVW is under then i would take my chances, how can they do you for intending to go over weight just becasue the trailer can take more, its safer to have a more capable trailer than push a lighter weight trailer to the limit, if thats the case every bloke walking the streets should get done for rape as he has the tools to do the crime, i will carry on towing as per the old axle and GTW's and argue it with vosa if i need to in court, its just some twat in a office changing the rules to earn the government more revenue.

[ginsambo]

I was of the impression that since the Euro ruling came in, in April 2008, if your theoretical gross train weight exceeded 3500kg and you tow in the course of you job or otherwise, say a minidigger to work as a landscaper and NOT for reward within a maximum of a 50 mile radius of base, you'll need a restricted use operators license anyway, but with no Tacho required. Trailors of 1020kg and under discounted against your gross train weight. So that's a 1.6T Kubota + 3.5T Transit = 5.1 tonne theoretical, or even if transit is unladen = 3.7 actual unladen train weight for a typical chassis cab, which is still over the 3.5T limit. So by law you require restricted use operators license....which costs £500 or so, thank you very much. and you'll need to register a depot from which you store equipment also, and this cannot be a residential address. Landrover discovery weighs in at 2.2 to 2.5 tonne + the same minidigger = 3.8 tonne minimum so operators license required. Although many can legally tow 3.5T, how many legally have operators licenses huh? Zero.

Whilst I can appreciate that a train weight of 5.5 tonne is a lot and is a potential safety issue with an unbraked trailor, when the manufacturers Vin plates say its OK and it falls within the manufacturers design specifications set to speed limits for 3.5T GVW vehicles on national roads, I can only deduce that it amounts to a big Euro scam to wring mince money out of us lot.

Maybe I'm being short sighted, but I fail to see how paying the government £500 and doing the paperwork for the priviledge of driving within the manufacturers specifications increases your stopping distance and therefore improves overall road safety with an unbraked trailor.

So do all Highways Authority and Council Transit chassis cabs pulling minidiggers have Tachos fitted these days?

To the letter of the European Law, adopted into National Legislation in April 2008, all a 3.5 GVW transit can pull, without an operators license, is nothing. In fact they can probably do you for having a towbar fitted without being in possession of a Restricted Use Operators License.

Personally I think it is a big scam by the Euro elite to get us all to use bigger vehicles like 7.5 T+ for a job that a 3.5T could do, so we use more diesel and pay more tax on the fuel or get fined.

As for redirection and referal to the other post, I read it and still think that this is the law as it currently stands with regard to train weights over 3.5 tonne.

[froogle]

What is the towing limits of my van?

I thought if the train weight was 3500kg then I could tow a trailer and car as long as they both don't exceed 3500kg?

If this is wrong, is it worked out that my maximum weight of the van is 2455kg and the train weight is 3500kg so I can only tow (3500kg-2455kg) 1045kg?

My van is never full. It is totally empty bar myself driving.

thanks
nick

[(ROG)]

Hi

Sorry to reserect an old thread....

I have read through the post and am still a little confused as to what I can tow.

I have a fwd transit and the plate on the inside of the passenger's side door reads:

2455 = that is the max weight the van can be when loaded
3500 = that is the maximum weight the van and trailer can be when added together
1350 = the max weight for the front axle
1360 = the max weight of the rear axle
The last two 1350+1360 will always add up to more than the first 2455 to allow flexibility on placing the load

I passed my test in 1996. What is the maximum weight I can tow? I am looking at a trailer, I don't know what it weighs yet as I've not bought it. I am looking to tow a car (for personal, not business use)

On another note the trailer I am looking at has no plates on it to say what it weighs or will carry. Do I need to have a plate on it? It is a full size trailer designed for transporting cars.

You have B+E licence so those are the towing rules we go by in your case
Maximum plated weight or tyre load rate for the trailer is 3.5 tonnes
The total weight of the van and trailer added together must not exceed 3500
Now what the trailer weight can actually be will depend on what the van weight actually is when it is towing it - if your van actually weighs 2000 then your trailer can weigh 1500

If your van actually weighs 1500 then LEGALLY you could tow a trailer weighing 2000 BUT that would not be SAFE as you would likely get the 'tail wagging the dog' effect

[(ROG)]

My van is never full. It is totally empty bar myself driving.

What does it weigh when empty with you in it and a full tank of fuel?

[froogle]

Hi

Sorry to reserect an old thread....

I have read through the post and am still a little confused as to what I can tow.

I have a fwd transit and the plate on the inside of the passenger's side door reads:

2455 = that is the max weight the van can be when loaded
3500 = that is the maximum weight the van and trailer can be when added together
1350 = the max weight for the front axle
1360 = the max weight of the rear axle
The last two 1350+1360 will always add up to more than the first 2455 to allow flexibility on placing the load

I passed my test in 1996. What is the maximum weight I can tow? I am looking at a trailer, I don't know what it weighs yet as I've not bought it. I am looking to tow a car (for personal, not business use)

On another note the trailer I am looking at has no plates on it to say what it weighs or will carry. Do I need to have a plate on it? It is a full size trailer designed for transporting cars.

You have B+E licence so those are the towing rules we go by in your case
Maximum plated weight or tyre load rate for the trailer is 3.5 tonnes
The total weight of the van and trailer added together must not exceed 3500
Now what the trailer weight can actually be will depend on what the van weight actually is when it is towing it - if your van actually weighs 2000 then your trailer can weigh 1500

If your van actually weighs 1500 then LEGALLY you could tow a trailer weighing 2000 BUT that would not be SAFE as you would likely get the 'tail wagging the dog' effect

Thanks that's clears it up. The van is always empty, I only bought it to put my quad inside to take it off road. I think the weight is about 1550kg on an empty van isn't it? (MY2000 MK6) That would leave me 1950kg before I went over the train weight. I normal car probably weighs 1000kg? and the trailer is probably about 600/700kg. So I should be ok towing?

Ideally I would need to get the van on a weigh bridge to get the weight. Also as trailer is not platted so would I need to get a place on it?

thanks

[ake]

Hi

Sorry to reserect an old thread....

I have read through the post and am still a little confused as to what I can tow.

I have a fwd transit and the plate on the inside of the passenger's side door reads:

2455 = that is the max weight the van can be when loaded
3500 = that is the maximum weight the van and trailer can be when added together
1350 = the max weight for the front axle
1360 = the max weight of the rear axle
The last two 1350+1360 will always add up to more than the first 2455 to allow flexibility on placing the load

I passed my test in 1996. What is the maximum weight I can tow? I am looking at a trailer, I don't know what it weighs yet as I've not bought it. I am looking to tow a car (for personal, not business use)

On another note the trailer I am looking at has no plates on it to say what it weighs or will carry. Do I need to have a plate on it? It is a full size trailer designed for transporting cars.

You have B+E licence so those are the towing rules we go by in your case
Maximum plated weight or tyre load rate for the trailer is 3.5 tonnes
The total weight of the van and trailer added together must not exceed 3500
Now what the trailer weight can actually be will depend on what the van weight actually is when it is towing it - if your van actually weighs 2000 then your trailer can weigh 1500

If your van actually weighs 1500 then LEGALLY you could tow a trailer weighing 2000 BUT that would not be SAFE as you would likely get the 'tail wagging the dog' effect

Thanks that's clears it up. The van is always empty, I only bought it to put my quad inside to take it off road. I think the weight is about 1550kg on an empty van isn't it? (MY2000 MK6) That would leave me 1950kg before I went over the train weight. I normal car probably weighs 1000kg? and the trailer is probably about 600/700kg. So I should be ok towing?

Ideally I would need to get the van on a weigh bridge to get the weight. Also as trailer is not platted so would I need to get a place on it?

thanks

Remember the trailer and load should ideally weigh less than the towing vehicle

[bj928]

Remember the trailer and load should ideally weigh less than the towing vehicle

why???????????????


if u are towing a braked trailer thats balanced correctly and with good working brakes it shouldn't matter in the slightest, an artic trailer can weight 3.5 times the weight of its tow vehicle and thats safe, i know it mounts different but its still a trailer, and over here in america they have trailer behind trailer even behind cars and pickups, there is so much bollocks and myth writen about towing that it gets so confusing for the new people that want to tow, this new MAM stuff is bollocks, someone needs to take it to court and challenge it, because as i see it, they want to fine you because you might do something wrong, well if the judge has a tow bar on his car, he "could" put your 3.5 tonne trailer behine his car, therefor, as he has a tow bar he is as liable for the same fine, even though he has no intent to break the law or even put trailer on his car, if the ball is the same size he "could" do it, his car can do more than the speed limit so he should get a fine for "intent to speed", the list goes on, just my 2p's worth, the eg with the judges car could maybe be worded better but i'm sure you all get where i'm coming from with the MAM and intent thing

rant over

[(ROG)]

An artic is designed to have the trailer loaded much more than the towing unit so lets get away from that as a comparison

If we take a Wagon & drag or normal rigid LGV towing a trailer that is about the same size as the rigid then we can use that as a comparison

However well the trailer is loaded, if that trailer weighs more then the towing vehicle then you will probably get the 'tail wagging the dog' senario and it's easy to get that as the trailer only has to start swaying a tiny bit for it to escalate very quickly and the lighter towing vehicle cannot control or correct the heavier trailer
I have seen this happen and it is frightening!!

If your car and trailer weighs 1700 then I would deffo load the van so it weighs 1800
1700+1800=3500

[ginsambo]

ROG do the restricted operators licenses apply if you are training over 3.5T? I am told they do. Whilst a 1020kg or under trailer is discounted in your train weight, and whilst you may be under 3.5T in a van, in a chassis cab tipper you are definately over it unladen pulling a 1.6T digger, even with with trailor (1020kg) deducted. Can VOSA do you for being over 3.5T train weight (excluding 1020kg trailor) without a restricted use license? My understanding is that, they can. Or is the minidigger discounted because its on the 1020kg trailer?

[(ROG)]

Sorry mate, O licences are not my bag - that's more of a 'management thing'

[ME]

ROG do the restricted operators licenses apply if you are training over 3.5T? I am told they do. Whilst a 1020kg or under trailer is discounted in your train weight, and whilst you may be under 3.5T in a van, in a chassis cab tipper you are definately over it unladen pulling a 1.6T digger, even with with trailor (1020kg) deducted. Can VOSA do you for being over 3.5T train weight (excluding 1020kg trailor) without a restricted use license? My understanding is that, they can. Or is the minidigger discounted because its on the 1020kg trailer?

I think your are getting confused, or complicating the matter.

If you are running a van with a 3500 kg gvw and tow a trailer which has a ulw of under 1020 kgs there is NO need for a O licence.

You can run upto your GTW (keeping within axle weights etc ) with no problems from VOSA, as long as you have a Tachograph fitted.

There are Exemptions for Tachographs, but these are few and far between and have been dwindling away recently.

The Problem is with the way the Laws are written they can be read and enterpreted (spelling) differently by who ever reads them. If you had 3 VOSA people in different rooms they would all have different views on this matter,which is down to the way the law is written and read, and the experience of the VOSA officer.

I recently had my Digi card show a malfunction when put in a unit. I went to a Vosa check site for them to check the card incase it was the unit at fault. The card was faulty, one said i could not drive at all with out it working, another said i have 7 Days to send it off and could drive using the Units memory, and another said 14 days. They were all siting in the same portakabin arguing with each other as to who was right

I think the 14 day guy was right

[g98churchm]

So, just wondering...
i've got a T350, i use it for personal use not business and, i'm looking at getting a towbar and 750kg boxtrailer.

where do i stand, do i need the b+e licence and a tacho??

[(ROG)]

So, just wondering...
i've got a T350, i use it for personal use not business and, i'm looking at getting a towbar and 750kg boxtrailer.

where do i stand, do i need the b+e licence and a tacho??

LICENCE
I believe the T350 is plated at 3500 GVW which if correct means you can tow a trailer with a maximum MAM of 750 kgs behind it on a B licence

Any more than 750 will require a B+E licence

TACHO
None required for personal use