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Thieving T@ats

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Postby FredTransit » Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:59 pm

Milemuncher wrote:I am not going to mention speeding fines and point, but put it this way I am not going on holiday to Cumbria anymore, I won't buy any petrol there and I won't buy any food there ever again (taking my own pop and butties when I have to work there )
Yes I was doing (allegedly) 79m.p.h. on the M6 but due to it being a company car and taking 2 months to get the paperwork I have no proof that it was me. I can't remember leaving home that early that day to be caught just after 8am. I can't afford Nick Freeman (unfortunately) to help me get off as it was a mobile camera placed in a very sneaky position.
So my way of getting my own back is not to go to Cumbria, used to go quite a bit for the weekend. Perhaps you think it is childish but so was £60 and 3 points.
Also why do the people going over 90 mph never get stopped or the lorries (foreign or otherwise) who ride your bumper in the 40mph roadworks or on another tack anyone on a mobile (especially manoeuvering)


If the firm couldnt prove it WAS'NT you, how did they prove it WAS? How did you get the points? And can we get a bit serious here? Even a Mk1 with a german 1700 would get up to 45....... If you are driving it you are up to 3 points.
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Postby UK_ANDY » Mon Oct 16, 2006 1:19 pm

Yep guys STOP giving the MK1 a hard time without the development of the Mk1 and succesive development what would you be driveing today ??? a b******d? s******r or worse :shock: :shock: :shock:
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Postby apples26 » Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:16 pm

ive never registered a vehicle in my name for over 4 years lol, every one of them gets bought via the trade slip on logbook so they send it off as sold to trade, the company on the slip however is well never even there lol

you still have the whole v5


the person you buy off is fine as its out of there name


the system screws you so screw the system back
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Postby jay » Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:36 pm

is that legal apples????i suppose u drive the cars with trade plates?...like a few i know.. :D
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Postby apples26 » Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:38 pm

na havent got any trade plates, keep meaning to get some just the hassle lol

and spose no its not legal
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Postby FredTransit » Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:51 pm

jay wrote:is that legal apples????i suppose u drive the cars with trade plates?...like a few i know.. :D


Er, I don't think so, but you don't need trade plates if the van has tax and your own insurance, trade insurance is easier to get than trade plates anyway.
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Postby jay » Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:52 pm

i got some trade plates they was reasonably easy to get..(4 years ago)
also if u get stopped driving a untaxed car you are then the driver of that vehicle and are then able to get procecuted for any offences like no tax if there isnt any.and the car can now be taken away and crushed
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Postby EasternT280 » Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:54 pm

It's the whole cynicism of it. Being a goody two shoes and "you broke the law - you deserve it" doesn't cut it when the law is such an ass about this kinda thing in the first place. So I can only applaud on what Apples is doing, buggering the system with "payment in kind". If everyone disputed their speeding fines until court summons were issued, therefore grinding the system to a halt, it'd be pretty good as well, and if some assault, robbery, drug dealing etc. crims get sidelined 'cos of it, well tough, it's the "system"'s fault for not prioritising properly, it should be those guys getting hit with the law.
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Postby Luke » Wed Oct 18, 2006 12:27 pm

If the cameras were there for "safety" i wouldnt have a problem - but the fact is there not :evil: the odd one is in a decent place - in view entering residential zones etc. but the majority are hidden on dual carrageways etc.
a mate of mine has just been done for 35 mph LEAVING a built up area - if the camera van was in the correct place ENTERING the built up area he wouldnt have been caught as he wasnt speeding there :!: anyway he's not getting any points but he has to go on a speed awarness course - why does he need a speed awarness course :?: - he's an annoyingly slow driver before this :roll: and if he'd been going faster he wouldnt have the choice to go on the course - he would have just got the points :shock: whats the logic in that :?:
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Postby bob cratchit » Wed Oct 18, 2006 2:16 pm

Exactly, they are revenue earners, nothing more, nothing less. If they were concerned with 'safety', they'd locate them in blackspots/school areas etc.
Im not advocating speeding, but as i ride a suzuki thou on the road, i occasionally tend to speed....usually when i switch the engine on, to when i switch it off :twisted: . Not been done by the revenue earners myself....yet. Time and a place for everything though.

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Due to a legal loophole, if you change lanes in a SPECS area, they cannot charge you if you were speeding :wink: A vehicle must be clocked entering and leaving the camera area in the same lane......
Might be useful for any of you mile munchers :D
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Postby FredTransit » Wed Oct 18, 2006 4:01 pm

bob cratchit wrote:Exactly, they are revenue earners, nothing more, nothing less. If they were concerned with 'safety', they'd locate them in blackspots/school areas etc.
Im not advocating speeding, but as i ride a suzuki thou on the road, i occasionally tend to speed....usually when i switch the engine on, to when i switch it off :twisted: . Not been done by the revenue earners myself....yet. Time and a place for everything though.

Handy hint
Due to a legal loophole, if you change lanes in a SPECS area, they cannot charge you if you were speeding :wink: A vehicle must be clocked entering and leaving the camera area in the same lane......
Might be useful for any of you mile munchers :D


That's interesting. Before you said that I had it in the back of my mind (should I need it) that a deffense could be that you were overtaking, so you would have been going slightly over the speed limit and then returning to it after returning to the inside or middle lane.
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Postby bob cratchit » Wed Oct 18, 2006 4:45 pm

as long as you finish in a different lane, yer laughing (until they close the loophole) although if it is a multiple specs location, you may be knackered (ie a camera for each lane). Doesnt work for ordinary speed cameras, just specs system, although i find that overtaking lorries in those zones works well :wink: (if you're lucky enough to have a lorry in the way.

Here's the full story:-

A massive flaw in a new generation of speed cameras means motorists can avoid fines and points on their licence simply by changing lanes.

The Home Office admitted last night that drivers can avoid being caught the by hi-tech 'SPECS' cameras which calculate a car's average speed over a long distance.

The astonishing loophole means that millions of speeding drivers around Britain could escape a £60 fine and three points on their licence. The hidden blind-spot - revealed today by the Daily Mail - raises questions about the supposedly foolproof hi-tech camera system which is increasingly used on Britain's roads.

Although designed to improve road safety, the loophole means that drivers may actually increase the risk of accidents by continually switching lanes.

Police chiefs were last night forced to urge drivers not to exploit the shortcoming by trying to evade the cameras.

The flaw affects the controversial SPECS cameras. Unlike standard Gatso cameras which individually flash a car as it passes, these cameras measure a driver's average speed between two fixed points - which can be many miles apart.

If this average speed between cameras is higher than the speed limit, the driver gets a fine through the post and three points on their licence.

The cameras were designed to catch motorists who simply slow down in front of a camera, and then drive above the speed limit until they reach the next one.

But, under Home Office rules governing the camera equipment, prosecutions are only valid if a driver is filmed in the same lane at the start and finish of each section by a linked pair of cameras.

The Home Office admitted yesterday that the hi-tech SPECS cameras - produced by Camberley-based Speed Check Services - are only approved to be used one lane at a time.

That means a three-lane motorway would require three separate sets of cameras - one for each lane. If drivers leave the speed-camera zone via a different lane to the one they entered in, they cannot normally be prosecuted.

The camera's manufacturers - Speed Check Services (SCS) - confirmed that drivers could escape prosecution by lane-hopping but discouraged it on 'safety' grounds.

Sets of the cameras have been installed at 27 sites around the UK at a cost of between £180,000 and £1.5 million per site, according to Geoff Collins, SCS’s sales and marketing manager.

Fourteen of the sites are permanent while another 13 are temporary at road works, where their presence has mushroomed in recent years. Sites that run for longer distances cost more because they need more cameras.

They include permanent cameras around Nottingham, a 20mph zone around Tower Bridge in London, the M8 between Edinburgh and Glasgow, and at roadworks on the M6 in the West Midlands, the M25, the A1(M) and the M1 in Hertfordshire, the A2 in Kent, and the M56 in Cheshire.

The SPECS cameras work by measuring the time a vehicle takes to pass between two number plate reading cameras set up to 6.2 miles apart.

A computer works out the time it takes to cover the distance, and then calculates the average speed.

If this is higher than the speed limit, a colour photograph taken by a third digital camera is stored for enforcement purposes. Multiple sets of the cameras are installed on stretches of road to make 'enforcement zones'.

But under Home Office 'type approval' rules, each individual set cannot be linked to any of the others. So cars are timed only between sets of number plate readers 'paired' for the same lane.

Most of the time each number plate reader in a pair will be directed at the same single lane of traffic and will therefore not detect lane hoppers, according to Mr Collins. He said:' If it’s configured to monitor one particular lane, then it wouldn’t pick up a lane changer.'

He added: 'There are configurations when (a speeding vehicle) would not be picked up, if it’s gone from lane one to lane three between cameras.'

The company's technical director Graeme Southwood said that when the devices were approved by the Home Office in 1999, they passed strict tests for use in one lane at a time. But there was not enough time or finances to extend Home office approval tests to cover the cameras' use over two or three lanes at a time. This has created the loop-hole.

He still claimed - without spelling out any detail - that this loop-hole was not actually foolproof and that some of those who attempt to use it will still face a speeding prosecution.

And Med Hughes, head of roads policing for the Association of Chief Police Officers, said it would be 'irresponsible' and dangerous for drivers to change lanes in a bid to avoid detection - adding that motorists would 'not be able to guarantee' they could avoid being penalised if they changed lanes.

Mr Hughes, Chief Constable of South Yorkshire Police, said: 'Motorists who change lanes in average speed detection lanes, such as major road works, will not be able to guarantee avoiding detection. Multiple enforcement systems are often used and detection zones will vary depending on the placement of the equipment.'

'Motorists are strongly advised not to seek to evade detection by unnecessarily changing lanes as this would generate a greater risk of collision and may lead to other offences being committed which the police may prosecute.

'These camera systems are designed to make our roads safer by reducing speed and casualties. It is irresponsible for motorists to deliberately seek to evade detection and speed.'

A spokeswoman for the Home Office said: 'The manufacturers applied for the camera to be type-approved to measure one lane only. It has been type-approved for this use - this can be either the lane under the camera or a lane to either side of it.'

'A SPECS camera measures a vehicles speed over distance in one lane.'

Motoring groups say police are putting too much reliance on cash-raising speed cameras which can fine a driver a few miles above the speed limit - but are unable to spot a dangerous, drunk, uninsured, or untaxed driver in an unroadworthy or stolen vehicle who is driving under the speed limit.

Last year more than 2 million motorists were caught speeding on camera, raising £120m a year in revenue for so-called 'Safety Camera Partnerships' comprising police, magistrates councils and road safety groups.

Speed cameras have boomed on British roads from a handful a decade ago to 3,300 fixed sites and 3,400 mobile devices today. At the same time there has been an 11 per cent cut in police patrols.

Edmund King, director of the RAC Foundation, said: 'I think the danger might be that you get people playing Russian Roulette and nipping from one lane to another to lessen their odds of being caught. They won’t know entirely but they might think there’s more chance.'
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Postby EasternT280 » Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:10 pm

Those things face the front of the vehicle anyway, so you bikers are laughing. Even more than you do already!
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Postby Luke » Wed Oct 18, 2006 8:41 pm

also a bit back when they were going on about the punishment needed to be harsher to be safer :roll: so they but the fine up to £60, if it was a deterant why not put the points up :?: ................... obviously that wouldn't make as much money :evil:
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Postby bob cratchit » Wed Oct 18, 2006 8:55 pm

EasternT280 wrote:Those things face the front of the vehicle anyway, so you bikers are laughing. Even more than you do already!


Oh yeah.. :wink: .......and the gatsos cant read a plate when the bike's on the back wheel either :twisted: muhahahahaha
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