Been nabbed by the police for illegal towing

[LSi]

Was meant to do a job earlier for a friend, he wanted his Landrover Discovery transported to a garage as it had a knackered TXB, this is the sort of work I often do, towing stuff on trailers. I passed my test after Jan 97 but took the B+E test and have that license, allowing me to tow weights upto the vehicle's GTW.

Some facts about the weights as I understood them, I thought I had it all figured out as I wanted to be legal for towing as I do alot of it:

I have a Mk5 SWB 150 rated at 5,200kg GTW

I got the van on a weighbridge a while back with a full tank of fuel, a usual supply of tools and me in it, and it weighed just under 2200kg, I never have more than this in it for towing. So we can safely assume my 'job ready' kerb weight is under 2200kg.

I use a Brian James trailer which is plated at 3000kg, and weighs 750kg... it has a load capacity of 2250kg

This (I thought) left me legal as my GTW would be at the specified 5,200kg, and my B+E entitlement means that the MAM of the trailer doesn't have to be less than the unladen weight of the towing vehicle.

I got pulled over and taken to a weighbridge just a couple of miles after leaving, which was a first for me. The GTW with the landrover on the trailer come in at 4941kg... great I thought, on my way...... no

The copper then informs me that the combined weight of the MAM of the trailer (which I knew the MAM would be used not the actual weight if it's lower) and the MAM of the towing vehicle is over the GTW. I wasn't aware that the weights for the towing vehicle were the MAM weights, I thought it was actual weight.

It turns out that the MAM of my van is 3200kg, leaving only 2000kg MAM remaining for legal towing... this is quite useless for me. If I get a lightweight trailer of around ~500kg, the most I can legally tow is 1500kg weight on the back? meaning that towing the likes of large vehicles like Landrovers and Transits is impossible

In all fairness the coppers that got me were very reasonable, they took into consideration that I was simply misunderstood about the towing weights and was indeed fully licensed and made every attempt I was aware of to be legal. They didn't give me any fine or points, but had to escort me back.

This is a major blow for me, I get a fair bit of work towing Landrovers about, and now I find I can't do it legally. Is there any LEGAL way of reducing my van's GVW and keeping the 5200kg GTW? I never go over 2500kg with the van on it's own, so if I could reduce it's MAM to that whilst keeping the GTW at 5200kg I would have a towing weight of 2700kg, which would be much more manageable. Is that atall possible? I'm gutted!

[juliantlee]

Hello, I'm not sure I follow. What is MAM ? I have to tow another 190 4x4 with my 190, am I likely to be illegal. I have towed a SWB from London to Torquay, in full view of many cops, but not on a trailer but with a towing A-frame. Your comments please!!

[LSi]

MAM - Maximum Authorised Mass - The max load that the vehicle or trailer can be at including any payload.

My van's MAM is 3200kg. My trailer's MAM is 3000kg. That means the combined MAM is 6200kg.

I very much doubt you'll be legal in all honesty, I suspect your GTW (Gross Train Weight) is about 5500kg on a 190. The MAM of one of them is 3500kg is it not? So that would leave you with 2000kg the same as me, it won't add up if you're towing a van.

A new lightweight trailer is about 500kg, you will only have a MAM of 2000kg legally available to you, and I suspect another 190 comes in at around 1800kg without fuel and 'stuff', that's 300kg over the threshold.

[Scotty86]

I was giving a warning a couple of months ago about towing a trailer without a license (didn't know I needed one plus I was never told about it. I was glad/lucky that I was only given a warning a £60 fine instead of the fine and points. Should be getting a test soon though.

[LSi]

Well like I say I do alot of towing. I can still tow most cars with the weights as they are, it's just the heavy stuff like Landrovers and vans that I now know are too heavy... well that and I need to find a 2t payload trailer and not the 3t I use.

I made so much effort trying to get legal, what with the test and getting the van weighed, and now more hurdles

[BigNeil]

and do you tow for money if so you technically need a tacho as well

what about one of those towing dollies the AA and RAC use that lift front axel ??

[Mike]

I was giving a warning a couple of months ago about towing a trailer without a license (didn't know I needed one plus I was never told about it. I was glad/lucky that I was only given a warning a £60 fine instead of the fine and points. Should be getting a test soon though.

You only need a licence if you passed your test after 1997, is that correct?

[Altransit]

Have I read that correctly, in that you would be illegal even with an empty trailer, if its MAM took you over the vans GTW?

[BigNeil]

Have I read that correctly, in that you would be illegal even with an empty trailer, if its MAM took you over the vans GTW?

intention to load so maybe ??

[whitevanman66]

unless you blag that you are only moving/delivering trailer (if empty of course ,then no intention of loading it)

[Scotty86]

I was giving a warning a couple of months ago about towing a trailer without a license (didn't know I needed one plus I was never told about it. I was glad/lucky that I was only given a warning a £60 fine instead of the fine and points. Should be getting a test soon though.

You only need a licence if you passed your test after 1997, is that correct?

Yes

[Mike]

I was giving a warning a couple of months ago about towing a trailer without a license (didn't know I needed one plus I was never told about it. I was glad/lucky that I was only given a warning a £60 fine instead of the fine and points. Should be getting a test soon though.

You only need a licence if you passed your test after 1997, is that correct?

Yes

Phew!

[LSi]

and do you tow for money if so you technically need a tacho as well

Quite right. If doing it for hire or reward, you need a tacho over 3500kg.

I was just helping a mate though, and as for the rest of the towing, that's usually done when I collect a Landrover as a fixer upper, it's a kind of side business for me.

what about one of those towing dollies the AA and RAC use that lift front axel ??

Not really ideal for 4x4 use, as I have to disconnect the prop to use them. Plus, these are ONLY legal for the purposes of recovering a disabled vehicle, not for transporting them.

Have I read that correctly, in that you would be illegal even with an empty trailer, if its MAM took you over the vans GTW?

Yes. I always knew the trailer weight was based on MAM. So it's not a case of what it is carrying, but what it's capable of. However, I was always under the impression, including from my instructor when I took B+E training that it's the ACTUAL weight of the towing vehicle NOT the MAM. The police indicated to me that it was infact the MAM of both, further research seems to suggest they are indeed right.... which is a bummer for towing big stuff.

This is why I want to know if it's possible to trade off some of the MAM capacity of the van, in order to become capable of getting in line with regulations. The van's MAM is 3200kg, but I never use that capacity. Something of around 2600kg GVW on the van would be more than adequate, leaving me 2600KG MAM for the trailer, which would work out about right for what I need.

[Altransit]

Something of around 2600kg GVW on the van would be more than adequate, leaving me 2600KG MAM for the trailer, which would work out about right for what I need.

The trouble is that the smaller capacity vans also have a smaller GTW, for example mine is 2850GVW and only 3500GTW

I was always told that you couldn't tow anything heavier than the tow vehicle, and this would seem to be correct from what you've just found out

[LSi]

Something of around 2600kg GVW on the van would be more than adequate, leaving me 2600KG MAM for the trailer, which would work out about right for what I need.

The trouble is that the smaller capacity vans also have a smaller GTW, for example mine is 2850GVW and only 3500GTW

I was always told that you couldn't tow anything heavier than the tow vehicle, and this would seem to be correct from what you've just found out

I fear that the towing limit for the van is locked at 2t, as the GTW seems to follow the GVW for a limit of 2t.

As I have been informed on another site where I asked, If I approach VOSA and ask for the van to be downplated in order to sling more weight on the back, they will reject on the grounds that the 2000kg towing limit will be increased beyong manufacturer's specifications

Regarding the query about weight ratios, and the trailer MAM not being more than the unladen weight of the towing vehicle, this is correct for standard license holders, but the restriction is removed for B+E license holders.