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Trouble starting

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Trouble starting

Postby jaystraveldirect » Sun Dec 01, 2019 1:20 pm

Hi

I'm having trouble starting a transit Mk7 2.4 100ps rwd minibis once started runs fine but just a pain to start it's done 350k km no lights on dash and don't want garages guessing what it is costing me money.

Any ideas please ?

Thanks.
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Re: Trouble starting

Postby hetman » Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:18 pm

I don't know about the newer models but you might have a simple problem. There are a few topics here on the first couple pages and more if you do a search. I"m new to diesels and have come to understand that it's very crucial to have a good battery, good connections to the ignition system, and the preheating system in good operation. Plus there are other possible problems with the fuel: air or water in the system, so there are fuel seperators, fuel filters and pumps, and the fuel tank and all lines should be in good working order.
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Re: Trouble starting

Postby knobby1 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:50 am

jaystraveldirect wrote:Hi

I'm having trouble starting a transit Mk7 2.4 100ps rwd minibis once started runs fine but just a pain to start it's done 350k km no lights on dash and don't want garages guessing what it is costing me money.

Any ideas please ? Thanks.


Does it play up when the engine is cold or all the time whether hot or cold..?? Air leaks at the fuel filter/filter head/leakback pipes are a common issue. This allows the fuel to drain back to the tank and it takes time to drag it back up when starting again. Has the fuel filter been changed recently..??

Lord Knobrot
2008 2.4L RWD 170+PS 6-speed 350 LWB High Roof.

When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather, not screaming like the passengers in his car..!
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Re: Trouble starting

Postby jaystraveldirect » Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:39 pm

knobby1 wrote:
jaystraveldirect wrote:Hi

I'm having trouble starting a transit Mk7 2.4 100ps rwd minibis once started runs fine but just a pain to start it's done 350k km no lights on dash and don't want garages guessing what it is costing me money.

Any ideas please ? Thanks.


Does it play up when the engine is cold or all the time whether hot or cold..?? Air leaks at the fuel filter/filter head/leakback pipes are a common issue. This allows the fuel to drain back to the tank and it takes time to drag it back up when starting again. Has the fuel filter been changed recently..??

Lord Knobrot


It does it whether the vehicle ir warm or cold seems harder to start when warm for example if I refuel it off for 5 mins its terrible put a new genuine fuel filter on it yesterday as indicator on fuel filter housing was on red hoping I'd solved it but it was still the same, injectors are prety loud till it warms up as well.
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Re: Trouble starting

Postby knobby1 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:44 am

jaystraveldirect wrote:It does it whether the vehicle ir warm or cold seems harder to start when warm for example if I refuel it off for 5 mins its terrible put a new genuine fuel filter on it yesterday as indicator on fuel filter housing was on red hoping I'd solved it but it was still the same, injectors are prety loud till it warms up as well.


Sounds like a candidate for a good old fashioned set of learns may help. How long since the last set of learns were done..??

Lord Knobrot
2008 2.4L RWD 170+PS 6-speed 350 LWB High Roof.

When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather, not screaming like the passengers in his car..!
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Re: Trouble starting

Postby jaystraveldirect » Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:56 am

knobby1 wrote:
jaystraveldirect wrote:It does it whether the vehicle ir warm or cold seems harder to start when warm for example if I refuel it off for 5 mins its terrible put a new genuine fuel filter on it yesterday as indicator on fuel filter housing was on red hoping I'd solved it but it was still the same, injectors are prety loud till it warms up as well.


Sounds like a candidate for a good old fashioned set of learns may help. How long since the last set of learns were done..??

Lord Knobrot


What is a learn ? Is it done via dignostic tool ? Thanks
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Re: Trouble starting

Postby knobby1 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:19 am

jaystraveldirect wrote:
knobby1 wrote:
jaystraveldirect wrote:It does it whether the vehicle ir warm or cold seems harder to start when warm for example if I refuel it off for 5 mins its terrible put a new genuine fuel filter on it yesterday as indicator on fuel filter housing was on red hoping I'd solved it but it was still the same, injectors are prety loud till it warms up as well.


Sounds like a candidate for a good old fashioned set of learns may help. How long since the last set of learns were done..??

Lord Knobrot


What is a learn ? Is it done via dignostic tool ? Thanks


Ok, you asked for it....Here's my take on the "Mk7 Euro-4 Learns"....please bare with me whilst I ramble on like the old twat I am... :wink: :mrgreen: The regular guys are gunna want to shoot me....again.. :lol:

The "Learns" we all speak of are a suite of calibration procedures of the fuel system done by specific software, Ford designed the system so it can be "re-calibrated" if some parts are required to be repaired or replaced. For example, if you needed to replace an injector, you can't just plonk a new one in and be on your way, it will require "coding" into the PCM, (Powertrain Control Module). Each injector has a specific 16 digit calibration/correction factor reference printed on it's plastic electrical connector when they're assembled and tested at the factory....this number must be entered into the software so the PCM has a calibration/pressure/flow reference to start from....we must understand that although the injectors for a particular engine ps will share the same part number, there are no two injectors exactly the same, so each will need it's own calibration/correction reference and each of these 16 digit numbers will be unique to each injector. With 16 digits there will be millions upon millions of number combinations....and as there's many millions of transits running around....and each transit has four or five injectors...you do the math..!

Now, when we do the learns using Ford's own IDS, (International Diagnostic system), or a very good alternate like Forscan, they use these numbers to calibrate each injector to match the pump pressure and flow at any given rpm, temperature, throttle position and load condition. Over time the engine itself will wear, rings, valves etc, possibly resulting slightly reduced compression etc.... and the fuel system parts, mainly the pump, SCV, (Suction Control Valve), and injectors will wear and their calibration will slowly drift/shift from their original settings, performance and economy will then often suffer......doing the learns will "reset" everything back to a datum so all parts will work in unison once again.
I generally recommend the learns be done at each major service to help keep things running sweetly, or at least as best they can....understandably some people will often not do this procedure because it can be time consuming to have your work vehicle off the road and costly if you can't do it yourself and need to take it to a dealer, garage or mechanic to get it done......as a result the above parts will slowly wear more and more over time....and the more they wear....the more they wear, I believe it's a compounding thing.

Usually it's not until the poor engine is really playing up, hard to start or giving poor performance/economy that people will then do something about it....by then it's often too late and the injectors, SCV & PRV may need replacing possibly before they really needed to be if they had been maintained in peek running condition in the first place.

HTH...

Lord Knobrot
2008 2.4L RWD 170+PS 6-speed 350 LWB High Roof.

When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather, not screaming like the passengers in his car..!
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