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MK7 Coolant Issue

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MK7 Coolant Issue

Postby Transitdickeye » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:01 pm

Hi all,
Just wondering if someone could shed some light on a problem I’ve got at the moment.
For some reason every morning when the engine is cold and left overnight, my coolant tank is heavily pressurised, I will take the cap off and all the coolant will come spurting back into the tank and some even out of the escape hole at the back.
I’m aware this can’t be normal and wasn’t sure what could be causing it.
I had a temperature gauge issue and thought with both problems I would change the thermostat and housing, did this successfully and it’s cured the gauge issue but I’m still getting a pressurised coolant tank. Some days I will have too little coolant and other days too much, I can only assume there could be an air lock somewhere in the system but this surely couldn’t produce the amount of pressure I’m receiving, I have also checked for signs of a faulty head gasket but all the usual symptoms aren’t there. There is also the egr cooler but I’m not sure if that would be causing this issue.
It could be unrelated but also when I’m driving and the engine has reached 90 degrees on the gauge, when I accelerate I sometimes here a pressure release noise coming from the coolant tank side of the engine, this makes me think that the pressure builds so much that the tank will let some escape as intended.
I’m kind of stumped so would love anyones advice or help on what this could be?
Thanks in advance
Mike
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Re: MK7 Coolant Issue

Postby metalworker0 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:48 pm

My next port of call would be to change the header tank cap, then do a sytem pressure check with a pump up pressure tester ..this will find and leaks ........if it .still happens, then, you have a head gasket problem, you can also get a garage to put a probe into the tank to detect hydrocarbons or C0, there are also products that you can add to the coolant that turn a different colour if a head-gasket has gone. sometimes a trained nose can smell it in the coolant.

all the best..mark
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Re: MK7 Coolant Issue

Postby Transitdickeye » Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:50 pm

Thanks Mark,

I did swap caps with my brothers transit as they’re the same year and it didn’t make any difference so I’ll rule out a new cap.
How would I perform a pressure test? Using one of the pipes I would imagine?
I’m also thinking of buying one of those head gasket testers to rule that out for sure, although it could still be that unfortunately!
Something happened today which was interesting, the engine malfunction light came on and my tec plugged it in and it showed DPF soot accumulation with power restrictions, which would be fine but I’ve fitted a new DPF 4,000 miles ago, I’m starting to think the engine isn’t getting to the right temperature to perform regenerations. I assume this could all be linked!
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Re: MK7 Coolant Issue

Postby metalworker0 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:23 pm

The pressure test device screws onto the header tank in place of the pressure cap - its not a head gasket tester ..it's for leaks but can be used as such....as pumping it up may show up the cylinder that is leaking ....well that's what it does with a petrol engine - diesels don't have sparkplugs or things that can be taken out to easily access the cylinders - diesels also have much higher compression .. so bit more involved .

Me I have an Amercan made one that i searched for ages for on ebay, to come up and buy at the right price (it has inflatable bladders that fit any expansion cap or radiator cap neck)..or you can buy a sykes one ...lot about with the wrong type of caps on them ...so do some research before you buy!

I suppose you could improvise something with a foot-pump and a schrader valve attached to one of the small pipes - but then you cant put any pressure in it over what the cap is rated at ...test is done without engine running. (note all or most coolant rubber pipes will leak at over 30psi ..or fly off) so test is done up to about 15 psi.

As regards DPF ...have a look at posts here - my post is at the bottom of the first page .....didn't want to explain everything all over ..so here's the link

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=211656

These DPF'S are a pain by the looks of things ...and like me you are best .......looking at all the info you can find on them on youtube ....you will learn a lot in a short time...and hopefully will have a then a complete understanding of the things ..which will save you ££££££££ - and will be knowledge that you cannot easily forget.

Another thought if dpf is blocked and EGR cooler is defective ..then you would get pressure in the coolant
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Re: MK7 Coolant Issue

Postby Transitdickeye » Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:20 pm

Thanks for the detailed explanation!

I’m going to research and do a pressure test to eliminate any leaks in the system.

Will post with an update!

Mike
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Re: MK7 Coolant Issue

Postby Jim Archer » Wed Dec 01, 2021 1:17 pm

Pressure cap test won't tell you much - it's holding pressure. Your issue is a build-up of system pressure that is greater than the normal expansion/contraction of the coolant in use.

Is the waterpump actually pumping? It's cold enough at the mo that you'd have to drive quite hard for a dodgy pump to show itself in the motor overheating.

Air leak on the suction side of pump? Though it should purge itself into the header tank.

EGR intercooler? These can cause pressure build-up, but you'll also lose coolant into the exhaust - giving sweet smelling exhaust as the exhaust run heats up.

Does the cooling system pressurise quickly from cold? With boses going firm before they get warm? Probably the 1 sure sign of a leaking headgasket.

Jim
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Re: MK7 Coolant Issue

Postby Transitdickeye » Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:45 pm

Thanks Jim,

I hadn’t thought of the water pump, suppose it could be worth checking to make sure that it’s running properly.

I don’t believe I’m losing coolant, but won’t rule out EGR.

Every morning the system is pressurised more than normal, even If it’s left 2 days and cold it’ll still be pressurised.
The problem has also caused my truck to not run at the proper temperature, I had to do a forced regeneration to it to clear the DPF as this quickly blocked due to the truck not being hot enough to perform a regeneration of its own.
I’ve changed the thermostat with a genuine Ford one so don’t think it’s the sensor that’s the problem.
It could be all linked but I’m abit lost as what it could do now.

The hoses don’t go firm before warm, they’re quite flexible and then get hot once the engine warms up.
Somewhere somehow the truck isn’t reaching temperature and my coolant system is overly pressurised.
Thanks for the response!
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Re: MK7 Coolant Issue

Postby tranmx2 » Sat Dec 04, 2021 11:38 pm

Jim Archer wrote:Pressure cap test won't tell you much - it's holding pressure. Your issue is a build-up of system pressure that is greater than the normal expansion/contraction of the coolant in use.

Is the waterpump actually pumping? It's cold enough at the mo that you'd have to drive quite hard for a dodgy pump to show itself in the motor overheating.

Air leak on the suction side of pump? Though it should purge itself into the header tank.

EGR intercooler? These can cause pressure build-up, but you'll also lose coolant into the exhaust - giving sweet smelling exhaust as the exhaust run heats up.

Does the cooling system pressurise quickly from cold? With boses going firm before they get warm? Probably the 1 sure sign of a leaking headgasket.

Jim


EGR intercooler? These can cause pressure build-up. Could you explain how there is pressure from the exhaust (3psi) to the coolant (20 psi) please?
2012 100-350 3.5 XLWB RWD 2.2 74 KW 100 HP 100 cv Duratorq Puma Transit TDCI E5 EGR DPF BCM PCM RCM
There's more letters after a Transit than a military man :lol:
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Re: MK7 Coolant Issue

Postby tranmx2 » Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:01 am

Transitdickeye wrote:Thanks Jim,

I hadn’t thought of the water pump, suppose it could be worth checking to make sure that it’s running properly.

I don’t believe I’m losing coolant, but won’t rule out EGR.

Every morning the system is pressurised more than normal, even If it’s left 2 days and cold it’ll still be pressurised.
The problem has also caused my truck to not run at the proper temperature, I had to do a forced regeneration to it to clear the DPF as this quickly blocked due to the truck not being hot enough to perform a regeneration of its own.
I’ve changed the thermostat with a genuine Ford one so don’t think it’s the sensor that’s the problem.
It could be all linked but I’m abit lost as what it could do now.

The hoses don’t go firm before warm, they’re quite flexible and then get hot once the engine warms up.
Somewhere somehow the truck isn’t reaching temperature and my coolant system is overly pressurised.
Thanks for the response!


My van has pressure retention and coolant loss. The pressure is about 30 psi. The coolant loss is about 1 ltr per 17 miles. A pressure test indicated that the cap relief valve lifted at about 30 psi ( supposed to be be 19 to 22 psi). After prodding the relief valve it lifted at 25 psi. A replacement cap from ebay was undersize.
The pipe from the thermo to the rad is flexible - there could be other flexible pipes on the system. With tank level at min with no pressure in the system the engine is started. After the engine has been running the coolant level goes down and the pressure comes up - the pipe from the thermo is firm.
Days after stopping the engine - cold - the pipe - thermo to rad - is firm (has pressure retained). Coolant level is down.
Release the pressure the coolant level remains down.
Seems there is an air lock or there is a small compressed air/gas leak to the coolant system.
A compression space to coolant leak can occur when the engine is hot or cold as can a coolant to compression space.
The situation/shape of the pipe thermo to rad gives an area where air can be trapped.

The layout of the cooling system leaves places where air could be trapped.

Perhaps one way to vent the thermo to rad pipe and the top of the rad is to have the vehicle on an angle with the lhs lower and if possible the thermo to rad pipe lower than the vent from the rhs of the rad. Or fix a bleed valve to the topmost part of the - thermo to rad pipe.
2012 100-350 3.5 XLWB RWD 2.2 74 KW 100 HP 100 cv Duratorq Puma Transit TDCI E5 EGR DPF BCM PCM RCM
There's more letters after a Transit than a military man :lol:
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Re: MK7 Coolant Issue

Postby knobby1 » Sun Dec 05, 2021 1:44 am

You're thinking too much about problems which don't really occur, the coolant travels around the system too quickly to get large pockets of trapped air...If you're losing large amounts of coolant with no obvious leaks and the system is pressurizing...it's more than likely the EGR cooler leaking internally and your coolant is going out the exhaust.

Have you isolated the cooler to eliminate it.

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Re: MK7 Coolant Issue

Postby tranmx2 » Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:27 pm

Thanks for the reply Knobby.
As yet I have not seen/found the EGR cooler. It is supposedly at the back of the engine. From underneath looking up to the back of the engine can see a rusted pipe connector.
- You're thinking too much about problems which don't really occur - like holes in the ground which are not there however one falls into them.
However/Whatever getting closer to the whatever the problem is. Now know what some of the pipes are on the system. Using Forscan gives some more info'.
No sigh of steam in the exhaust.
I am about to embark on a routine of checks to try and find the whatever.
It is now winter and I don't want to have to work outside.
the coolant travels around the system too quickly to get large pockets of trapped air. Have not known trapped air to move out of a pocket unless vented. The pocket needs to be prevented from forming. Several small pockets add up to a big one.
The pressure is retained - if the pressure was from the heat/expansion of the coolant the pressure could drop when the coolant cools.
The pressure could be retained by the flexible pipes and air traps. Loss of coolant to the air pockets and flexible pipes - coolant level is not returned when the pressure is released. Coolant could replace air that was trapped.
I had hoped it is related to the EGR cooler but as yet I can't find it. Coolant could be lost via the EGR cooler but the exhaust gas pressure is less than the coolant working pressure unless when cold and with no pressure in the coolant system exhaust gas can enter the coolant system and so pressurise it. If the coolant pressure is 0 the pressure from the exhaust cannot get the coolant pressure above 3 psi unless the exhaust is blocked but then what pressure can be achieved?
DP DPF is usually . 6 kPa = 0.08 psi at idle - it has been seen at 18.00 kPa = 2.6psi. Pressure in the coolant is higher. When a test was done the rad cap did lift at about 30 psi. Should be 19 to 22 psi.
There being no air in the coolant system. The level is just above max. The coolant cold at start. Engine heats up coolant = enclosed system pressure increase. If pressure above 19 psi and pressure release occurs some coolant is lost as steam. Engine stopped. Coolant cools to cold. Could result in a vacuum in the system due to coolant loss - flexible pipe collapse.
2012 100-350 3.5 XLWB RWD 2.2 74 KW 100 HP 100 cv Duratorq Puma Transit TDCI E5 EGR DPF BCM PCM RCM
There's more letters after a Transit than a military man :lol:
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Re: MK7 Coolant Issue

Postby metalworker0 » Sun Dec 05, 2021 4:19 pm

There will not be any air traps - air traps will only be caused by a fault and are not naturally occurring, this is a sorted cooling system that only has trouble when there is a fault, its not a Triumph stag were-by you are constantly searching for answers (i know this because i have one) --- which is how i know a little bit about cooling ..

Like said above .. bypass the Egr cooling ..to temporally eliminate it ..

NOTE : a lot of people are in denial of a head gasket until it actuality fails completely
a head-gasket failure can play tricks on you when it's in the process of failing,.

Often the head-gasket can act as a one way valve letting combustion pressure out into the coolant system ...but not letting it out again.....
it can let water into the cylinders.........then when system cools down you'll have collapsed hoses and a vacuum.
Beware - This trickery can go on for months sometimes years. - until; complete failure !

The mot station sniffer tester ..will definitely let you know if you have a head-gasket putting combustion gasses into the coolant system - assuming you've by-passed the Egr cooling.

all the best..mark
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Re: MK7 Coolant Issue

Postby knobby1 » Sun Dec 05, 2021 8:18 pm

tranmx2 wrote:Thanks for the reply Knobby.
As yet I have not seen/found the EGR cooler. It is supposedly at the back of the engine. From underneath looking up to the back of the engine can see a rusted pipe connector.
- You're thinking too much about problems which don't really occur - like holes in the ground which are not there however one falls into them.
However/Whatever getting closer to the whatever the problem is. Now know what some of the pipes are on the system. Using Forscan gives some more info'.
No sigh of steam in the exhaust.
I am about to embark on a routine of checks to try and find the whatever.
It is now winter and I don't want to have to work outside.
the coolant travels around the system too quickly to get large pockets of trapped air. Have not known trapped air to move out of a pocket unless vented. The pocket needs to be prevented from forming. Several small pockets add up to a big one.
The pressure is retained - if the pressure was from the heat/expansion of the coolant the pressure could drop when the coolant cools.
The pressure could be retained by the flexible pipes and air traps. Loss of coolant to the air pockets and flexible pipes - coolant level is not returned when the pressure is released. Coolant could replace air that was trapped.
I had hoped it is related to the EGR cooler but as yet I can't find it. Coolant could be lost via the EGR cooler but the exhaust gas pressure is less than the coolant working pressure unless when cold and with no pressure in the coolant system exhaust gas can enter the coolant system and so pressurise it. If the coolant pressure is 0 the pressure from the exhaust cannot get the coolant pressure above 3 psi unless the exhaust is blocked but then what pressure can be achieved?
DP DPF is usually . 6 kPa = 0.08 psi at idle - it has been seen at 18.00 kPa = 2.6psi. Pressure in the coolant is higher. When a test was done the rad cap did lift at about 30 psi. Should be 19 to 22 psi.
There being no air in the coolant system. The level is just above max. The coolant cold at start. Engine heats up coolant = enclosed system pressure increase. If pressure above 19 psi and pressure release occurs some coolant is lost as steam. Engine stopped. Coolant cools to cold. Could result in a vacuum in the system due to coolant loss - flexible pipe collapse.


EGR cooler lives behind the cyl head on the RWD's, disconnect the two hoses going to it and connect them together with a suitable piece of pipe. This will isolate it and take it out of the system....if you still lose coolant, you may have to look a little harder. Is your oil level rising..?? Sometimes the freeze plugs in the cyl head can let go.
We've had many cooling systems slightly pressurised by poorly EGR coolers due to blocked DPF's....quite common. Your coolant is going somewhere.... and with no obvious leaks...it cant hurt to eliminate the EGR cooler as a suspect.

EGR for the Euro-5 2.2 cooler here in blue.:

http://www.catcar.info/ford/?lang=en&l= ... MysxMzM%3D

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When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather, not screaming like the passengers in his car..!
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