2.5 FSD425 turbo diesel just stopped.

[spriteracer]

Good morning all. I'm looking for a bit of assistance. I have an ex-police 2002 LDV convoy (sorry !) with the Ford 100hp 2.5 turbo diesel which according the a spec readout from LDV is the FSD425 engine. It has the Epic diesel pump and DCU. Having been totally reliable for the last 15 years in my ownership as a race support camper, and having been driving perfectly normally for an hour towing a car trailer, it just stopped - as if the key turned it off. No warning, no misfire or any indication of trouble. AA was unable to identify the cause and van was recovered back home.

So far I have checked everything I can think of. It has,
a new battery just prior to the breakdown,
new fuel filter. (There doesn't seem to be a water sensor) ,
electric fuel pump producing plenty of fuel. (the mechanical pump was replaced years ago after it had an issue)
plenty of diesel and no tank vacuum;
Diesel appears at inlet and return of the diesel pump and at all of the injectors. Engine will fire on easy start.
Electrical connections including to the DCU and accelerator pedal seem clean and dry - no obvious signs of water ingress or corrosion.
Crank sensor is producing voltage when I wave it at a lump of steel and internal resistance is 350 ohms- Is this about right for these as I had a suggestion this might be the cause ?
The engine cranks and seems to want to fire but dies instantly although it keeps on cranking.
I haven't taken the injectors out to test them specifically, but I can't see how they would all fail instantly.

Is there anything obvious I have missed, or is this likely to be a general failure of the pump or DCU ? I have looked around at the change to the Bosch pump but good ones seem rare and expensive and I'm not sure the rest of the van is worth it...

Any advice or suggestions gratefully received. Many thanks.

[Altransit]

I've read your list twice, but I can't see that you've checked the timing belt

[spriteracer]

Thanks for the response.

Correct I haven't. The belt was changed 10,000 miles ago, albeit 10 years as well. The engine sounds perfectly normal cranking and was running fine before it stopped. Is the timing belt likely to be an issue ? If so is it easy to check ?

The belt was changed by a truck mechanic. We have since moved to a very rural area in West Wales, and with the van immobile, getting someone else to check it is difficult. I have not delved into this engine more than general servicing, filters etc. but willing to learn.

Thanks again.

[Altransit]

Well, a 10 year old belt is well past its sell by date, and they tend to 'go' by stripping the teeth around the bottom pulley, so they look OK at first glance.
Could be, may not be, but it's the first thing I would check if a Di engine stops suddenly

[Chug]

You checked it twice Al and missed that it will fire on easy start so the timing belt must be ok, so it's fuel related, give it fuel (easy start) and it goes.
Is there a powerful squirt of fuel from the injectors? hits the head and bounces off onto the bonnet.

[spriteracer]

Thanks all. Chug - I cracked open the nuts holding injector pipes to the injectors. They did squirt or leak a bit depending on how loose they were. Probably not to the extent you mention though. The AA man did the same with the same result. Is it worth taking the injector's out to see their performance ?

Any comment on the Crank sensor ? i.e. is 350 ohm and some voltage when waved against a lump of steel (my bench vice) ok or is it failing ? I don't have another one to compare.

Is the usual symptom of failure of the Epic system - DCU or the pump electronics, ESOS etc. sudden like mine or are there other symptoms beforehand ?

[MinorMatt]

It is extremely rare for the EPIC system to just die

Being an ex police I would guess it hasn't got an immobiliser?

My first step would be to try and pull any fault codes - if the system can communicate the DCU is ok.

check the fuse and brown relay in the fuse box - I can't remember exactly but I think its under the bonnet on the convoy and has the diagnostic socket in. If these are good I would switch the ignition on and check voltage at the fuse/relay. If there isn't any there is a master fuse failed.

I have had DCU failure (only twice in the time I have been working with them, and one was on my van!)

[spriteracer]

Thanks for the update.

I will check the relay and voltage etc. You are correct they are in a flip lid box on the drivers side of engine bay in the LDV. (Next to a similar box with fuses for the air suspension if fitted - mine has) I have already checked the fuses which seem ok, but the relay is very tight and I stopped pulling it out in case I damaged it. I'll have another go.

Re immobiliser - to be honest I'm not sure. I had always understood that if that had activated then the engine won't crank but I maybe wrong on that. I have a red key and a black one with a red dot on it. How do I tell for sure ? I can see some boxes on the metal dash chassis under the plastic coverings, but I think these are dim-dip relays.

Re fault codes - I can't access them via the diagnostic socket as I don't have access to the laser 2000 kit. No-one I've spoken to around here - even long established garages, have it anymore. Will I be able to tell enough from the red light flashes ?

[spriteracer]

Next update.

The Power hold relay clicks and has power to its socket. All the fuses in that box are ok.

The van does seem to have an immobiliser - black box with adjoining crank inhibitor relay under the plastic dashboard. It is the only box with anti tamper screws.

[MinorMatt]

Thanks for the update.

I will check the relay and voltage etc. You are correct they are in a flip lid box on the drivers side of engine bay in the LDV. (Next to a similar box with fuses for the air suspension if fitted - mine has) I have already checked the fuses which seem ok, but the relay is very tight and I stopped pulling it out in case I damaged it. I'll have another go.

Re immobiliser - to be honest I'm not sure. I had always understood that if that had activated then the engine won't crank but I maybe wrong on that. I have a red key and a black one with a red dot on it. How do I tell for sure ? I can see some boxes on the metal dash chassis under the plastic coverings, but I think these are dim-dip relays.

Re fault codes - I can't access them via the diagnostic socket as I don't have access to the laser 2000 kit. No-one I've spoken to around here - even long established garages, have it anymore. Will I be able to tell enough from the red light flashes ?

Do you have an LED which flashes to indicate the immobiliser status - thats the easiest way to confirm. If you do, and it cranks, the DCU is working. If you don't have immob it can crank away with a failed DCU.

There are no blink codes on these - except immobiliser. If its cranking thats working

[MinorMatt]

Re fault codes - I can't access them via the diagnostic socket as I don't have access to the laser 2000 kit. No-one I've spoken to around here - even long established garages, have it anymore. Will I be able to tell enough from the red light flashes ?

Whereabouts are you?

[spriteracer]

Yes, I do have an immobiliser - cigarette sized box with anti tamper screws and a crank inhibit relay attached to it according to my LDV manual. The red light flashes rapidly when the ignition is on. I can't remember if it did that before, but is it likely to fail when driving ? I have tried the red key and the normal one but no difference.

Since my last post I have checked all the fuses again, checked all the relays including the power hold with a relay tester and substituted the crank position sensor with a borrowed known good one. I also have a new old stock power hold relay coming today (arranged before I got the tester)

I am in West Wales, near Llandysul, close to the coast between Aberystwyth and Cardigan

Thanks Again.

[MinorMatt]

Yes, I do have an immobiliser - cigarette sized box with anti tamper screws and a crank inhibit relay attached to it according to my LDV manual. The red light flashes rapidly when the ignition is on. I can't remember if it did that before, but is it likely to fail when driving ? I have tried the red key and the normal one but no difference.

Since my last post I have checked all the fuses again, checked all the relays including the power hold with a relay tester and substituted the crank position sensor with a borrowed known good one. I also have a new old stock power hold relay coming today (arranged before I got the tester)

I am in West Wales, near Llandysul, close to the coast between Aberystwyth and Cardigan

Thanks Again.

A bit far out of my way...

The immobiliser shouldn't stop it as such - but if the master fuse, power hold fuse, or power hold relay fail it will stop - and show as an immobiliser issue

[MinorMatt]

If the red light flashes rapidly the immobiliser is saying its immobilised.

If you wait a minute - it will stop flashing rapidly and will do a diagnostic blink code.

*rapid blinking* pause *blink* *blink* *blink* short pause *blink* *blink* (then repeated) would be code 32

This can be used to narrow the issue

[MinorMatt]

And.... I have heard of some LDVs cranking when immobilised, but its not something I have personally come accros