Wheel Nut head sizes - safety of using 19mm instead of 21?

[snowjoe]

Not related to another thread about wheels.
this relates to my son's van. We want to put MK8 steel wheels on his MK7 MWB van. I know you need 'tapered' nuts. It seems the easily available ones are M14 x 2.0 tapered but with 19mm hex heads, not 21mm like the original MK7 wheel nuts.

There's plenty of these 19mm tapered sets on fleabay but two sellers told me they 'only have 19mm heads, not strong enough so we can get some 21mm if you need'.
Another seller of 19mm ones said they are 100% fine and perfectly safe.

Wondered what the brains on here think?

[metalworker0]

well its the taper that holds the wheel , the head size don't have much to do with it , unless the taper is smaller to go with that head size...when they use the tin caps on them there is a difference of 2mm..so actually the tin does nothing and 19mm are 17mm underneath.--- some cars actually use aluminium wheel nuts.
Think they will still torque up the same, what ever that is on a transit, the shank. thread diameter will still be the same. the connects something like 100 foot lbs for 19mm ...but will have thinner shank

all the best.mark

[knobby1]

well its the taper that holds the wheel , the head size don't have much to do with it , unless the taper is smaller to go with that head size...when they use the tin caps on them there is a difference of 2mm..so actually the tin does nothing and 19mm are 17mm underneath.--- some cars actually use aluminium wheel nuts.
Think they will still torque up the same, what ever that is on a transit, the shank. thread diameter will still be the same. the connects something like 100 foot lbs for 19mm ...but will have thinner shank

all the best.mark

Transit wheel nut torque is 200nm....so effing tight.

Lord Knobrot

[snowjoe]

well its the taper that holds the wheel , the head size don't have much to do with it , unless the taper is smaller to go with that head size...when they use the tin caps on them there is a difference of 2mm..so actually the tin does nothing and 19mm are 17mm underneath.--- some cars actually use aluminium wheel nuts.
Think they will still torque up the same, what ever that is on a transit, the shank. thread diameter will still be the same. the connects something like 100 foot lbs for 19mm ...but will have thinner shank

all the best.mark

Excellent thanks, I suppose it's the thread and taper that's doing all the work, just thought I'd get some opinions as couple of ebay guys got me concerned but probably a case of the blind leading the blind

[snowjoe]

Transit wheel nut torque is 200nm....so effing tight.

Lord Knobrot

Crikey, that is. I wonder how many jumps on the spanner that is for a 14 stone bloke? I'm guessing at least 3

[snowjoe]

PS - To be belt and braces I should have added... I assume 60 degree taper is correct, as that's the nuts I've been told are what I need (from a seller of them)

This sort of thinghttps://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/174059340781

[metalworker0]

The ones i bought for mine had tapered captive floating washers, which i think is better for alloy wheels, as the ones you linked to will be grinding themselves in, as they turn, scoring the alloy.
what's common about all these chinese wheel nuts is that they are not chromed, they are polished zinc plated...which means that new, they look great, after 18 months they rust! they have on mine...and we've had barely a winter with almost zero salt . i suppose at £15 - replace each year -

NOTE this is for connect ..you'll have to look carefully for transit mk6 / mk7 ones with floating washers, note threads go all the way to end of nut, this sort of helps if you still have the short, steel-wheel, studs, still in place

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/303718599811?

all the best.mark

[snowjoe]

Useful info there thanks
These will be for 16" mk8 (350) steel wheels, so I'm not sure if the floating washers are necessary, I'd assume not


Either way, after what you said I may just key and spray some silver on my new nuts, see if I can avoid the rusty look for a bit longer!

[metalworker0]

i would spray clear lacquer on them, if bought again ..but that does not stop the socket scratching it off

I think most of the tapered sets on ebay are meant for alloy wheels - hard to tell when most of them have the word alloy in the title including the one you linked to.

all the best.mark

[snowjoe]

Good idea thanks.

Yes but you know ebay, half the time they throw as many words in title as possible just to catch searches. I guess they are nearly always purchased for those fitting alloys. Just hope they will work for Steelie Dans!

[snowjoe]

Transit wheel nut torque is 200nm....so effing tight.

Lord Knobrot

I just spoke to a relative of mine I rarely speak to, he's a mechanic and maintains a lot of MK7s. He was talking about ALLOYS (so not what this thread is about) on a MK7 with tapered nuts and he said you need to torque to something like 250-275nm or they 'WILL come loose'. He said he speaks from experience. That sounds insanely high to me, what do you think?!

[knobby1]

Transit wheel nut torque is 200nm....so effing tight.

Lord Knobrot

I just spoke to a relative of mine I rarely speak to, he's a mechanic and maintains a lot of MK7s. He was talking about ALLOYS (so not what this thread is about) on a MK7 with tapered nuts and he said you need to torque to something like 250-275nm or they 'WILL come loose'. He said he speaks from experience. That sounds insanely high to me, what do you think?!

IMHO...anything near 275nm will possibly have the studs breaking, they're only 14mm studs...you need to be able to get them off in the event of a flat tyre, if they're done up to 275nm, you'll not get them undone with the normal Transit wheel brace, you'll need a pretty hefty high torque rattle gun or a long 3/4" knuckle bar and plenty of weight to get them undone, this means 275kg on the end of a 1m bar.

200nm is plenty...even that is 100kg on the end of a 2m bar. 14 stone is only ~90kg. Good luck.

Lord Knobrot

[snowjoe]

Thanks Knobby, I did wonder about what he said. Spoke to him again and he happened to mention he's broken plenty of studs! But he was adamant that they come undone without that much torque. That said, I am NOT putting 275 on! 200 for me, will check the nuts every week and see how it goes

[knobby1]

Thanks Knobby, I did wonder about what he said. Spoke to him again and he happened to mention he's broken plenty of studs! But he was adamant that they come undone without that much torque. That said, I am NOT putting 275 on! 200 for me, will check the nuts every week and see how it goes

I always do mine to 180-200nm...I've never had one come loose.

Lord Knobrot

[snowjoe]

Thanks, must be the loctite