Transit 2012 2.2 RWD TDCi, pistons hitting valves

[SamFin]

New member here, I have been reading your fantastic topics in here. Thank you all for that.

I have that Ford on the topic. I have torn the engine apart couple of times and reassembled it. Last time everything was good, no error codes, everything working well. Except coolant was pressurized so I opened top of the engine, checked cylinder head, refitted everything. I used the same head gasket as it had been running so little with it.

Now valves are hitting pistons. Every one of them (or at least 4 of them), because there is a stuck in every 180 degree rotation from the crank end. Valves were not hitting pistons earlier. All the parts are the same! I have checked timing like at least 10 times, went to tea and back again to ensure that am I missing something. I might be still, but I doubt it very much. Let's assume that timing is correct.

I am thinking possible issues: I have refitted valves wrong. Exhaust to inlet and vice versa. But I should have noticed that while fitting I assume

Could it be that head gasket is so close to the correct one that when refitting, it has lowered that little that valves would touch pistons?

I am so out of ideas with this one at the moment. There is a sunny weather outside (even in Finland!) at the moment, that I could open everything again (I don't know what would be the multiplier for that anymore...), but I decided to throw this one out here, if you would give me some more ideas for this one.

Thank you all beforehand!

[SamFin]

I forgot to add this one: when I loose (raise) the camshaft rocker bridge a little, valves are not touching to pistons anymore (that's my assumption as crank rotates "freely" after this).

[metalworker0]

if you've done everything else right -- timing etc - i've heard it's possible to get the camshafts mixed up ..that's all i can think of.

what made you take it apart in the first place ?

all the best.mark

[SamFin]

I was thinking the same as the very possible reason, but if I remember right their back ends are different as there is vacuum pump connected to exhaust one's end. But I am not quite sure about it anymore. And of course I don't have any photos from those to check (photos would be great documents for these kind of cases...).

Well, long story short. I bought this one as a plan to create a camper. And why not to buy the one with damaged engine . Pistons 2 and 3 had been out of lubrication and probably turbo was also gone. It is very difficult to understand the turbo oil filter, which is mounted inside the crankshaft bearing in these engines. It was melted completely.

It might be that the time before this one I forgot to tighten up guiding bolts properly in the cylinder heads (the 8 smaller ones) and probably that's why it was pressurizing the cooling system. Now I managed to tighten them up properly, but mixed something else (possibly these cams, if that can be possible!).

This one is not going to be a camper as in our country there are quite tough regulations for seats and I cannot get seats for this one with decent cost.

[knobby1]

I was thinking the same as the very possible reason, but if I remember right their back ends are different as there is vacuum pump connected to exhaust one's end. But I am not quite sure about it anymore. And of course I don't have any photos from those to check (photos would be great documents for these kind of cases...).

Well, long story short. I bought this one as a plan to create a camper. And why not to buy the one with damaged engine . Pistons 2 and 3 had been out of lubrication and probably turbo was also gone. It is very difficult to understand the turbo oil filter, which is mounted inside the crankshaft bearing in these engines. It was melted completely.

It might be that the time before this one I forgot to tighten up guiding bolts properly in the cylinder heads (the 8 smaller ones) and probably that's why it was pressurizing the cooling system. Now I managed to tighten them up properly, but mixed something else (possibly these cams, if that can be possible!).

This one is not going to be a camper as in our country there are quite tough regulations for seats and I cannot get seats for this one with decent cost.

Was the cam timing set and both cams and flywheel "pinned" with the #1 piston at 50 degrees BTDC..?? Cams reversed could be the issue...unlikely as they have "IN" and "EX" on them.

Lord Knobrot

[SamFin]

Yes, the timing was set properly. I had a 10 mm pin put in the hole of crank's position sensor locking the flywheel in a correct position. I had 6 mm drill bits locking cams properly in place in their holes in the front.

I am still thinking metalworker's reply about mixed cams. Ends are different, but if they are like the image showing (not from my car but on ebay from some seller), it might be possible to mix them if there would be enough space in inlet's end as the exhaust's end is bigger because of the vacuum pump. I mean if both ends has these places for some sort of actuator, for me it seems that vacuum pump could fit for both of them. It's not too much required anymore to take the rocker bridge, vacuum pump and the upper part of the cylinder head away to get into the cams.

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[knobby1]

Yes, the timing was set properly. I had a 10 mm pin put in the hole of crank's position sensor locking the flywheel in a correct position. I had 6 mm drill bits locking cams properly in place in their holes in the front.

I am still thinking metalworker's reply about mixed cams. Ends are different, but if they are like the image showing (not from my car but on ebay from some seller), it might be possible to mix them if there would be enough space in inlet's end as the exhaust's end is bigger because of the vacuum pump. I mean if both ends has these places for some sort of actuator, for me it seems that vacuum pump could fit for both of them. It's not too much required anymore to take the rocker bridge, vacuum pump and the upper part of the cylinder head away to get into the cams.

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Ah yes, the horrible Euro-5's...Euro-4's are so much better, vacuum pump for the RWD's is where it is supposed to be, on top of the Water pump.

Lord Knobrot

[SamFin]

Ah yes, this has been an interesting journey anyway with this one. Let me write a little about it even these are a bit off topic...

Here in north it seems to be common that PCM takes water in. When there is wet and cold outside, water goes in the control box, possible through the wires as the box and connectors are not sealed properly. Once I had finished the engine for the first time it took quite a long to figure out that there were a little water inside PCM which has done some damage. I ordered another PCM from Lapland. Once it came it was FULL of water. So I obviously returned it with a statement that you might understand that this product might not be worth to try to sell anymore...

I bought next one from ovoko.com (I recommend it, very good place). It was dry inside. Came from eastern Europe, where there is not that cold and wet than in here. Once installed, didn't work. I didn't managed to get it to work with Forscan by trying to flash the as built file from old unit. There were errors. Local workshop was not able to make it to work either with their IDS.

I bought the next one again from ovoko.com. This time, no flashing, nothing needed. Worked directly. Exact same PCM unit every time. Actually, I did try the as built file flash from the original unit with this one, but there were the same error as earlier. So PCM is working, I just don't understand why

This turbo oil inlet filter inside the crank bearing is interesting. I removed it as I assume it was all there. BUT, there were still no oil to turbo (I managed to break two turbo central cartridges with this one as I just didn't check the oil. I just assumed it is working properly). But luckily they are not that expensive! Last one I bought from there:https://www.ebay.com/itm/276719210849. So I but a y-strainer to oil pressure switch and a hose directly from there to turbo. Now that's working as expected. I am still worried about why there is not oil from the original line coming, is there still a stuck somewhere. And if, would that stuck do something else (like blocking oil to pistons/crank)?

Camshaft rocker bridge: I figured out at some point that it has oil lines and the rocker springs inside the bridge were stuck. Many of them. That's why there is not sufficient lubrication for each camshaft bearing and they start to worn. And probably snap in some point, I don't know. But the fix is "very easy": dismantle the cam bridge in parts, clean and polish parts and put back together. There are little pistons with springs, which some of them were worn badly (I don't know why, bad quality?). After fixing this one and rotating the engine without the oil cover on top it was nice to see oil flowing properly out of each 8 holes in the top of the bridge.

[SamFin]

Update: with my engine, it is impossible to swap cams. Intake cam doesn't have a place for vacuum pump at all. Exhaust cam only has that. So the last that I can figure out are, either I swapped all valves or the head gasket is with the wrong thickness (might be possible, because I might have bought wrong it with the wrong thickness).

[SamFin]

But again error codes, which were displayed, didn't refer to head gasket, they were P0341, referring to incorrect cam position and then also another one for mass air flow values.

[SamFin]

Valves must be ok. They are all aligned in same level, they moves exactly similar way, no issues there.

I am so out of order with this one. Food didn't help. Sleep didn't help either.

Lifting rocker bridge makes engine move properly. Tightening bridge --> jam in every 180 degree rotation.

Thank you Lord Knobby and Metalworker for your support for my whining anyway. This must be something "obvious", I am just too stupid!

[metalworker0]

Did you skim the head ..if so the head gasket needs to be thicker ...the second use of the gasket may had crushed it more.

The gasket is what's called multi-layered steel - MLS - and needs a super smooth surface to seal.
if a lot has to be been skimmed off it, to get a good surface, then you need an extra thick gasket. believe there are three thicknesses of head gasket, if that cant be made to work ; the valve seats need re-cut to send the valves further into the head.
Note: You will have seen that the valves are almost flush with head face.
Worse case - its sometimes - off to the machine shop with it ....to have the head skimmed and piston tops machined..as there is almost no clearance to cope with a skim. on these engines.

all the best.mark

[knobby1]

Valves must be ok. They are all aligned in same level, they moves exactly similar way, no issues there.

I am so out of order with this one. Food didn't help. Sleep didn't help either.

Lifting rocker bridge makes engine move properly. Tightening bridge --> jam in every 180 degree rotation.

Thank you Lord Knobby and Metalworker for your support for my whining anyway. This must be something "obvious", I am just too stupid!

If the cams are correct the only thing that it can be is the timing is out. This needs to be tripple checked, as mentioned previously, #1 piston needs to be @50 degrees BTDC before the cams are pinned and chain fitted. Are you able to take a photo of the front of the crankshaft with the flywheel pinned ..?? It will be faily obvious if it's in the wrong place. Haven't replaced the clutch/flywheel have you..??

The head gaskets, as mentioned, come in three thicknesses, but this is mainly to get the compression ratio correct depending on the piston protrusion above/below the block/deck height. Highly unlikely the pistons will hit the valves even with the thinnest gasket fitted.

Lord Knobrot

[Radiofence]

A friend of mine was convinced he had the flywheel locked in the correct hole, he wasn't using the proper tool (that has a fitting nipple which let's it drop further than a bar would. He destroyed his head.

Tervetuloa

[SamFin]

Thank you all, kiitos paljon (especially another Oxford located highly assumed Finn or something)!

I used 10 mm pin (threaded rod, but anyway: 10 mm, proper size), which cannot fall into a wrong hole (I assume and also tested this in the time when engine was out). I also ensured that it will fall into a hole by turning crank a little. But I definitely can see this as a possible issue if made wrong!

In my case there is a mark from the previous owner in crankshaft and engine block in the timing chain end. And what I saw, it matches with the hole in the flywheel quite accurately last time I had whole engine out from the car. And I have already been running this engine properly previously by turning the crank into the mark made there, locking the cams and putting the chain in place.

Lord Knobby, I cannot get the picture from flywheel end as engine is mounted in place and I would not like to detach it. Yes, clutch and flywheel changed! What I remember, there were some sort of alignment pin or something and what I remember it was not possible to align it wrongly. Only one position possible.

I cannot figure this out how, but it starts to sound like the cams are one tooth wrong both. But this is very difficult to believe as for me it feels that I should have seen this issue when playing with the chain and the chain tensioner when all of them were in place especially when all were locked up. But the symptom starts to sound for me too that the timing has been 1 tooth away. But how easy it is to miss a tooth? I don't understand.