2000 2.5 diesel - ODB, PWM EPIC and starting

[Frag]

Think after reading this thread (as you have no doubt)
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=57237&start=30

I`d be changing the relay

Cast your mind to when it won`t start,does the red Engine management light come on with the ignition
I`m guessing if relay fails you will have PATS light flash & fault but cant see that the eng. management light would come on....

[malcolmbebb]

Think after reading this thread (as you have no doubt)
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=57237&start=30

I`d be changing the relay

Cast your mind to when it won`t start,does the red Engine management light come on with the ignition
I`m guessing if relay fails you will have PATS light flash & fault but cant see that the eng. management light would come on....

Yes, I've been looking at the other thread - I thought it was dead, which I why I started this one But it's become active again so I'm following both!

I don't know about the eng. management light - first I'd heard of it, don't know where it is. First time I was totally baffled, started after a few minutes. Second time I had a better clue, but I was 120 miles from home en route to Scotland with no useful books to hand. I only found out about the flash code when the breakdown guy pointed it out. Wasn't in the best frame of mind at the time... If there's a next time I shall be better prepared.

This box with the relay and fuse - is it easy to find and recognise? I'll have a look over the weekend, if it stays dry.

Is the Haynes book for the Trannie worth getting? Or is there something better?

Thanks

Malcolm

[Altransit]

Is the Haynes book for the Trannie worth getting? Or is there something better?

The Haynes manual is absolutely no help on immobiliser problems, I don't think it's even mentioned

[Frag]

You should have a red warning light in the instrument cluster which has an "engine" symbol on it,comes on with ignition,goes out on start up,straight away if no fault,after a couple of secs if faults have been logged.

Stays on permanent for major fault/limp mode
Some unscrupulous "person" may have removed or blanked the bulb if faults are present........before you got the van.

[psv-hgv-flt]

You should have a red warning light in the instrument cluster which has an "engine" symbol on it,comes on with ignition,goes out on start up,straight away if no fault,after a couple of secs if faults have been logged.

Stays on permanent for major fault/limp mode
Some unscrupulous "person" may have removed or blanked the bulb if faults are present........before you got the van.

Stays on permanent for major fault/limp mode ..????

not allways, van may still run fine with light on.

[Frag]

Most EPICS will be lucky to run fine with light off

EMS (engine management system) lamp (located within the cluster)

"This light should extinguish as soon as the engine has started.This indicates the engine is running correctly.If the light remains on for a short period then a fault may have occured.
If the light fails to go out with the engine running or illuminates during normal driving a fault has occured which may impair engine performance.
If warning light does not illuminate at all when ignition is switched on,the fault is probably a defective bulb,fuse or power hold relay."

[malcolmbebb]

Well, I found the box with relay and fuse - took a while - I think the expression is "hidden in plain sight", it was so bl**dy obvious. Right under the servo, as the man said.

I didn't get the relay out, not sure if it's retained by something or just very stiff.

Also found the EMS warning light. I don't recall ever seeing it illuminated. I had assumed it wasn't relevant to this model. Anyway, I changed the bulb and it stays on. Hmm. I think this may be the fuel pump warning that the guy at the garage said he couldn't clear. Wonder why he didn't spot that the light wasn't on.

The engine does actually run OK - obviously, since I've not had it long and not driven another similar recently I've got nothing to compare against, but seems OK to me.

Question is, is that a different problem? Would a (reported) fuel pump problem give me an occasional refusal to start, or do I have two problems! That's going to be the hard bit!

[malcolmbebb]

Another question - the fuse and relay in the engine bay, as mentioned in the other thread. My handbook doesn't seem to mention it - what does it actually do? Any offers?

[psv-hgv-flt]

Another question - the fuse and relay in the engine bay, as mentioned in the other thread. My handbook doesn't seem to mention it - what does it actually do? Any offers?

that is involved with starting

[malcolmbebb]

Finally got it out - some corrosion on one of the main terminals. Symptoms with it out same as problem symptoms, lights look OK but engine won't turn over. Will replace it.

Also took the fuse out - some corrosion on that, too. Interesting that with relay out EMS light doesn't come on at all.

[Frag]

Another question - the fuse and relay in the engine bay, as mentioned in the other thread. My handbook doesn't seem to mention it - what does it actually do? Any offers?

Relay is for engine management,power hold relay.
Keeps PCM live for a few seconds after key off as EPIC system moniters the way engine shuts down,if ESOS (posh name for stop solenoid in pump) doesn`t work,pump moves to no fuel position to stop engine.
Hence the need for engine management to stay live after "key off" to monitor shutdown & log faults if required.

[malcolmbebb]

So if relay isn't working, ECM doesn't get power as expected...

Well, I've booked it in at local Ford main agent next week. I've asked them to look at EMS fault reports and change the auxiliary belt, and I will get them to change the power hold relay and its socket.
I hope (!) it won't cost much more for them to fit as I'll have to get the bits from them anyway.

Thought about just cleaning up the relay and socket pins, but there is a risk it will just corrode again (faster) if I do and reliability is important.

Thanks for the info and suggestions - I'll report back if anything of interest arises.

[Frag]

Relay shouldn`t be a problem but socket is a complete loom,its part of the e.p.i.c eng.management loom.
Some dealers have repair terminal kits,may be unlikely with age of vehicle now though.
Probably best to strip connectors out of terminal block,clean & refit them if not beyond repair,use electrical grease & fit new relay.

[malcolmbebb]

Duly noted - clean up, then.

PS is your dog still that cute?