Brake servo replacement

[claypole]

Hi all, and thanks Luke for invite to site. For my nostalgic sins I've just bought a '74 Mk1 V4 campervan, identical to one I had in early 80's. I need a brake servo and possibly a master cylinder. Actually I need a list of things that just gets longer and longer but first things first, I want to get the MOT sorted. Have seen an ebay ad for one to fit Mk1 disc braked mini-bus. Whilst I can see that different cylinders and components would be used on different models I'm wondering if the servi is same fits all? My camper is based on a 130 with drums all round. Anyone know if this is a likely match? Or if Xmas is coming early anyone got the right part for sale?

Many thanks

Claypole

[Luke]

Didn't notice this post before!! Welcome to the site mate!!!

Im not sure but the guy who i bought my mk1 off said he swapped the brakes over to mk2 without swapping the servo or master cylinder - so it should work the servo is from 1970 onwards i think the pre 70's are different i think!!!

Not sure but i know a man who will know - Madmark - answer this one!!

[claypole]

Cheers Luke. Local factors say they can source but at over £300 that's not really in budget. Will wait and hope for further info from Madmark.

[madmark]

hi guys now this is a tricky one for me ,as far as i can see they are the same fitting but for some reason some are biger than others ,when i changed mine over i know the bracket on the back is interchange able as i used a bracket from a 76 mk1 but why are there difrent type cylenders unfortunatly you have just missed a servo on ebay new for £50 ,i didnt watch it so i havent got the number but i dont think it sold! also maybe transitgeoff might be able to shed some lights on the sumject , 1 thing for some reason is 130 with drums ( and a anker) have a smaller cylender than 130 with disc! i would like to go disc in the fututure !

[FredTransit]

The Mk3 servo and brake master fits the Mk2, but slightly at an angle dipping down at the drivers side. It works fine with the rest of the original system, and while we are on the subject the Mk3 load sensing valve fits on the Mk2, but you won't have one on the Mk1 or early Mk2. Welcome to the board by the way....
So if my theory of Mks 1 and 2 being the same from the back of the wings back, theoretically the Mk3 servo should fit the Mk1. The Mk 2/1 brake master is no longer available, so unfortunately you will have to fit both. I would recommend saving up for the new part, rather going the 2nd hand route. You don't want to mess with brakes.

[claypole]

Cheers all, although I'm not sure I'm following all of this! The Ebay servo was what prompted the question, because it was billed as disc braked models only, whereas mine is drums all round. Seller was quite certain they were different servos and Delphi technical said the same. But, like you Fred, I'm thinking the bulkhead fitting must surely be the same so maybe a later servo and M/C combined would do the job. Problem is I presume there's a good reason for disc set up to be difeerent to drums and like you say, brakes not really something to experiment on! Not quite sure why this is but maybe it's got something to do with the volume of fluid required to move callipers and wheel cylinders being different? Any further advice much appreciated. As far as my servo goes, I'm pretty certain it wasn't doing anything when bringing it home (bit tricky 'cos also had seized wheel cylinders, and it was found to be full of fluid, which I now think was prob water and has a lot of corrosion where the m/c fits. I'm assuming it's shot but is it possibly to check it off the vehicle?

[FredTransit]

Cheers all, although I'm not sure I'm following all of this! The Ebay servo was what prompted the question, because it was billed as disc braked models only, whereas mine is drums all round. Seller was quite certain they were different servos and Delphi technical said the same. But, like you Fred, I'm thinking the bulkhead fitting must surely be the same so maybe a later servo and M/C combined would do the job. Problem is I presume there's a good reason for disc set up to be difeerent to drums and like you say, brakes not really something to experiment on! Not quite sure why this is but maybe it's got something to do with the volume of fluid required to move callipers and wheel cylinders being different? Any further advice much appreciated. As far as my servo goes, I'm pretty certain it wasn't doing anything when bringing it home (bit tricky 'cos also had seized wheel cylinders, and it was found to be full of fluid, which I now think was prob water and has a lot of corrosion where the m/c fits. I'm assuming it's shot but is it possibly to check it off the vehicle?

First you have to remember that all Mk2s and most of the Mk3 have both discs and drums (have the later ones gone to all round discs yet, anybody?), so the early Mk3 servo should be capable of operating both.

If your servo was full of fluid, the master has seals have gone, and the servo has sucked up fluid. The good new is if you can get it replaced, and the fluid wasn't there for too long, it may be possible to save the servo, but brake fluid is pretty currosive stuff, and the servo may not last much longer. The brake master is still available, make sure you ask for one for a 1985, which was the last full BUILD year for the Mk2.

As for not experimenting with brakes, we had no choice, when I found out that the servo was no longer available, and with brakes not being an optional extra!

[claypole]

I'm pretty sure it was water in the servo. Reservoir remained brim full despite long journey home and pedal was firm so I beieve m/c back seal was fine. Only spotted fluid leak when bleeding brakes I think this was because opening beed nipple allowed more pedal / rod movement which moved the servo diaphram further and caused the fluid / water to be pushed out. Unfortunately we'd stripped the m/c before working this one out! Next thought is can I remove the servo altogether? Fit m/c to servo bracket and make up shorter operating rod. I believe some early mk1's were not fitted with servos to begin with. Maybe need a different size bore on the m/c though as presumably mine was sized with servo assistance in mind. Any thoughts?

[FredTransit]

I'm pretty sure it was water in the servo. Reservoir remained brim full despite long journey home and pedal was firm so I beieve m/c back seal was fine. Only spotted fluid leak when bleeding brakes I think this was because opening beed nipple allowed more pedal / rod movement which moved the servo diaphram further and caused the fluid / water to be pushed out. Unfortunately we'd stripped the m/c before working this one out! Next thought is can I remove the servo altogether? Fit m/c to servo bracket and make up shorter operating rod. I believe some early mk1's were not fitted with servos to begin with. Maybe need a different size bore on the m/c though as presumably mine was sized with servo assistance in mind. Any thoughts?

Think about it, to be any use a servo has to be sealed. So there is no way for any fluid, water or otherwise to, get in if it is still sealed. It's there to create a vacuum to assist the braking capacity, and shouldn't have any fluid in it. We had an 1974 LWB, and it was fitted with a servo, so no you can't do without it! I have never heard of any Mk1s without a servo, we had a 1966 for a while, and that had a servo, can't get a lot earlier than that! On the subject of the push rod, that does have to be shortened when you fit a Mk3 servo, as it's fitted slightly nearer to the pedal on the Mk3.

[claypole]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... Track=true

See this ebay item for master cylinder on non-servo models. My original Ford manual also refers to vehicles with and without servo so I presume there were indeed mk1's without servo.

I agree with everything you say about what the servo does but I don't know what the inside of the servo looks like, ie which part holds the vaccuum. You said in your last post that a servo could be saved if fluid had not been in there too long so i presumed you knew better than I did and that it was possible to have fluid in part of the servo without it necessarily being buggered. Anyone else got knowledge or experience of mk1's without servo? Failing which I might come back to you Fred for more info on using Mk2 / 3 parts. Early start tomorrow so it's goodnight from me for now.

[claypole]

I think your anker is prob best idea Mark, I'll have to find a boat yard.

[Luke]

my advice - fit a mk3 progress you see

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... eName=WDVW

ok its not new but there always on ebay and in years to come you will struggle less to find a replacement!!





Ive never known a transit without a servo i'd guess the ebay seller is wrong- but i could be either way you do want a servo!!

[FredTransit]

I don't think the Mk3 brake master fits the Mk2 servo, and the Mk2 brake master is still available (for now). Personally I would go the whole hog and fit the servo and master Mk3, as you say Luke easier to get repalcements in future.

[Luke]

thats what i meant fred mk3 m/c and servo!!!

and to my knowidge they dont fit together mk2 and mk3!!!!

[FredTransit]

thats what i meant fred mk3 m/c and servo!!!

and to my knowidge they dont fit together mk2 and mk3!!!!

I didn't say they did luke, I said the Mk2 servo is still available, meaning to fit to the Mk2 servo, and fit both the Mk3 servo and brake master. Oh, you already agreed to that bit!!