Duratorq with VE pump, MTDI.

[andypdq]

Was having a bit of a daydream today, wondering about fitting a mechanical VE injector pump to a duratorq, to avoid all those expensive and time consuming electronics nightmares on an ageing vehicle.

Getting the pump hooked up should be relatively simple, just modify the existing hub, or make a new one to fit the timing chain sprocket to the VE pump shaft, and make a pump support bracket.

The only real problem would be injector compatibillity. I've read a bit on other sites about people doing this to other engines and it does't seem to be as critical as I at first thought, may be adjust injector opening pressure, but tddi injectors and the Di stanadynes seem to open at similar pressures as far as I can tell.

I was thinking of buying a mk 6 with a knackered engine, and putting a Di in it, but this would probably be simpler as there seem to be lots of non runners about with pump problems.

Comments and suggestions please.

Andy.

[taz666]

2.5di in a mk6 has already been discussed on here with mixed views
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=82049

[andypdq]

Hi taz,

Having re read my original post , I see that it could be interpreted differentley than I meant. What I meant to say was that converting the Duratorq to a mechanical pump would be less work than fitting a Di.

I don't see why, if correctly maintained, and driven with sympathy, the duratorq should not be mechanicaly reliable.

What do you think about compatability of injectors with a Bosch VE pump,with LDA manifold boost compensation control?

If I left all the original wiring, obviously with the VP pump plug disconnected, would the rest of the electrical sysytem work correctly, ie speedo etc?

Thanks and regards.

Andy.

[angeleye]

wouldnt of thought this is possible .what about ecu /sensors /electronic throttle pedal /pump is coded to ecu,..if this could of been done easy there would be a thread some where how to do it,same question was asked couple weeks ago from someone over seas

[andypdq]

Hi angeleye,

Most of what you say is irrelevant. Mechanical pumps don't need any engine sensors to work, look at the Di or any other engine with a mechanical pump. As long as the injectors will work with the pump, and tddi injectors are not electronically controled, the engine will run. The only issue is ancillaries, ie speedo etc.

See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wUuhhDH4Gw

and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FGfXH9VW7c Peugeot, A durotorq engine I think.

This guy is a very able young man. Its well worth watching the series if you're in to tuning.

Regards.

Andy

[AndyG]

It's about time somebody put a mechanical pump on a Duratorq

As you've said, pulley will need sorting and while both pumps are out, attention to timing to be clarified

Also check the height of the pump, just in case it interferes with the plastic inlet manifold

The firing order is different between DI and Duratorq (should be straight forward to correct)

The lever that operates the pump is on the wrong side of the pump (pump fits on the opposite side of engine) so this will need sorting

I also think that the late Di s injectors work on very similar pressures as the Duratorq, so can't see that being a problem

Don't understand why your speedo won't work though
Late MK5s use electronic speedos Unless you have the digital mileometer display, then this may well be very different)

And yes, ALL that wiring, ALL those sensors, ECU and EGR system can be dumped

[taz666]

the only pump i can see which would a be suitable and b fit under the inlet manifold would be the old lucas pump as fitted to the really early 2.5s. if that could be modified enough it would be viable and you would make an absolute fortune if you made them

[defi]

I have done this to TDi Vw golfs, they go nicely with a VE pump

[andypdq]

Hi defi,

I've had three VW tdis , 2 Audi 80s, great car but crap front suspension, 1Z engine, and presently a Passat with AFN engine, not as good a build quality as the Audis, but better engineered. I was considering mtdi in the event of electronics problems, but it never happened! Take note, Ford. All had the electronic version of the VE pump. I was planning to put the etdi camplate in a pump from an earlier idi engine, AAZ etc. I'd be interested to know what you did.

As a matter of interest I bought the last Audi 80 in 2008 for £508 ebay and sold it 75,000 miles later, a month ago, for £450, apart from regular maintainace, brakes, lots of wishbone bushes, one set of alternator brushes, one track rod end, two front strut inserts and two timing belts, that was it. And people say it's cheaper in the long run to buy new vehicles

Redards.

Andy

[andypdq]

Hi All,

Can anyone post a link to, or supply any pics of a tddi duratoq engine, injection pump side. I don't have any practical experience of the engine. I am interested in pump to inlet manifold clearance. I would be interested in the rwd version primarily, but fwd versions would be interestng too.

Many thanks.

Andy

[AndyG]

Image courtesy ebay

[oldyellar]

this is a good idea duratorq in my mk2 for sure if you pull it off

[andypdq]

The reason I was mentioning the speedo not working was because I am no expert on vehicle electronic systems. Many functions are inter connected and I wouldn't be surprised if, when a mechanical pump was fitted, with the engine running and the ecu not communicating with the now missing electronic VP pump, the whole system went into a state of total bewilderment and had a nervous breakdown . If the speedo and other ancilliaries, eg warning lights etc are acting via the ecu, this could cause a problem. If the ecu only controls engine management and doesn't effect the rest of the electrical system, then it wouldn't and it could be chucked . Any information regarding this would be appreciated.

I am now on the lookout for a spares or repair mk 6, 350 with a fuel pump problem.

Thanks and regards.

Andy.

[dieselhead123]

Interesting reading here.

Yes this WILL work

Ford supplied the engine as an 'industrial' unit with a mechanical pump and no electronics, it had a Bosch pump but as far as I have researched, all were non turbo so no need for the raised top pump with the Manifold Pressure Compensator that might cause clearance issues with the inlet manifold.
No doubt the inlet manifold was different on the industrial engines or perhaps was supplied to suit each individual application by the engine users.

Unfortunatly, the Mk6 speedo is driven directly from the vehicle ECU, we know this as most of the di engines installed in Mk6's result in no speedo signal.

If may be that the speed sensor could be wired directly to the cluster as in the case of the later electronic speedo Mk5's but the signal may not be compatible.

The Bosch ESI system will provide a breakdown of the pump components used in the industrial spec engines and may be useful when building the hybrid pump.

Be good to see this done,

TIM

[oldyellar]

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