2005 VH (Ex Postie Van) ASM 4th gear slipping/Crunching

[samwhich]

Hey guys, I know a similar question has been asked before but no answers have been provided yet and I think its time we find a solution for this increasingly common issue! Too many of us guys are getting ripped off or told "it isn't worth fixing your van" which I think is hugely disappointing

Van: 2005 VH SWB 2.4 TDi Duratorq with ASM Gearbox

Issue: Van starts and drives beautifully . Gears change up and down nicely. Accept... not long ago my ASM light was coming on intermittently then going away again. No obvious issues so ignored

Recently, whilst cruising along slowing down for an intersection @ about 50-60kph in 4th gear (auto or manual mode) - if my REVs drop low but the van is still rolling quickly, 4th gear slips and there is an awful crunching sound as it is trying to find a gear then usually ends up in 5th(sometimes 3rd). It is only under these very specific circumstances it will happen. Sometimes I can sit in 4th driving down a gentle slope using the compression of 4th gear to slow the van down on purpose for testing and it wont do it. If I am driving in manual mode I can manually select to drop down from 4th to 3rd before the revs get low and it goes nicely. Its really random but ALWAYS whilst in 4th gear. Other times just cruising along in 4th gear, as soon as I back pedal just a tad, BOOM! it slips and does the grinding and tries to slip into gear again. Eventually finds one though. I don't have to stop/start/put it into neutral like some others on the forums do... All other gears are absolutely fine.

DTC Codes: Using a Bluetooth ELM327 and Forscan software, I have managed to do some troubleshooting myself. Codes I have received are listed below. The ones in bold are persistent:

- Code: P0571 - Speed Control Brake switch circuit failure (Which I have now Fixed)
- Code: P2711 - Unexpected mechanical gear disengagement (This one is the regular one which occurs with the issue explained above)
- Code: B1319 - Driver door switch malfunction (which I have now fixed - or has gone away)
- Code: U1900 - %%h(CAN)(186E4) communication bus fault (This one comes up a bit - thought it might be a false negative from my cheap scan tool?)
- Code: P0717 - Turbine speed sensor circuit no signal (Haven't Seen this one for a while)
- Code: P1643 - Fuel pump monitor circuit low input (This one is coming up a lot now however tonight I managed to clear it by cleaning a connector which I thought was on the fuel pump but not sure now... will test further tomoz..)

What I have been doing is checking all the fluids (which are fine), sensor connections on transmission, fuses, switches, relays (which all seemed fine) and the more I play around with the electronics, the better the van is getting! 4th gear crunching/slipping is still occurring but much more gently now since re-establishing some connections- almost unnoticeable sometimes accept for the flashing light on the dash.

My gut feeling tells me there is an electrical issue but where??? Can this Fuel Pump Monitor Circuit be causing an issue? I have tonnes of specific PID readings too if that helps anyone? Any help would be greatly appreciated! I will be sure to post the solution weather I find it here or elsewhere also.

Thanks guys

[samwhich]

Here's some live data to supplement my info above. Thanks to anyone who can help me troubleshoot this! I really feel this is a faulty sensor issue but cannot put my finger on it!

Fuel Injector Pump - Live Data


Powertrain Control Module - Live Data


Transmission Control Module


Restraint Control Module


Security Module

[Altransit]

Have you read the posts about the 'grey relay' corroding on these

[samwhich]

Great pick up Altransit!

I did come across something about the grey relay on a couple of areas of the forum but none seemed related to my issue. Thanks to your suggestion, I have found this: http://fordtransit.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=95772 so am going to dig down and check mine out. Always wondered what was in those black boxes under the water reservoir. I sometimes hear a nice buzzing sound from something in that area identical to the HPU pump so keen as to get in there and see whats going on.

Thanks again and I will report back once I have sussed out this grey fuse. Fingers crossed!

Cheers mate

Sam

[Altransit]

Thanks again and I will report back once I have sussed out this grey fuse. Fingers crossed!

Yes, please do

Information on these is very sketchy, and anything gained may be useful to the next guy/gal

[samwhich]

Ok so I had a look and the fuse pins look fine. I opened it up to look for internal deterioration and it looked nice and shiny and new. For troubleshooting purposes, I have done what some guys might cringe at but I am desperate! I have swapped the "grey relay" in question with my known good (identical) ignition relay (Fuse R13 in the engine compartment). Will test drive tomoz and report back however I am not hopeful.

Have also tried wrapping the sensor located under the turbo on the front of the gearbox with heat insulation. Zip tied other electrical wires and harnesses up from engine components to the best of my ability in case engine heat was causing electrical issues, created a temporary heat shield to protect the HPU from the exhaust......

I am really starting to get this feeling that it is something to do with one of the sensors on the transmission that reports the vehicle speed or RPM. I might also add that on very rare occasions, the van will sometimes have a very scary delay when going from 1st to 2nd (Foot down but no acceleration). Another similar thing is taking off in first and it wont change to second at all unless I manually change it. This is rare so I never thought it would be related but come to think of it, probably is. This might help with the diagnosis?

If someone could provide an diagram of the ASM transmission explaining the sensors on it, that would be really helpful and I could start tackling troubleshooting them!

Accessing the "grey relay"
See image below. You can get to them without removing the Coolant reservoir. You will have to undo the windscreen water filler though. The boxes are opened by hooking your finger tip under the latch at the top and bottom and pulling them out (See green ticks). The 2 on the side (Red Crosses) are NOT to gain access to the fuses - they are there to clip the fuse box to the body!



Grey Relay







Thanks for your input! I will continue to provide useful info where I can. Cant wait to get to the bottom of this!

[Altransit]

Great pictures for the database

I may well copy some of this to the "useful information" section for easier searching, so any more pics would be great Durashift owners may well look upon you as some sort of guru in the future

[samwhich]

Thanks Altransit. I am so scared of being quoted $5-10K to fix my van so I will do anything to get to the bottom of this issue! Let me know what pictures you want and i'll post them! (sorry, van pictures only )

Jokes aside, I did notice a considerable improvement in the driving from swapping the relays around - suggesting a potential relay issue! But after some time, the issue returned. And occasionally would not let me select 4th at all for about 30 seconds! :\ If I drive carefully, the transmission seems to change gears normally so it is almost certain that the vans rolling speed when it goes to change gear is a cause of the issue.

So...that brings me back to the VSS (Vehicle Speed Sensor(s)). Can somebody please tell me which one this is? Altransit? Gary? There is one sensor on the tail of the transmission and one at the top/front just where the transmission bolts onto the engine (see pic below). General knowledge tells me that one would be the input speed sensor and one the output speed sensor? Is this correct? After searching the part number which I forgot to document the front one was called a "crank shaft sensor"? Not entirely sure what this does... Any info would be great!

Thanks

[Altransit]

Crankshaft sensor just measures engine revolutions, and sends the info back to the ECU. The engine won't even start if it's faulty or disconnected

[samwhich]

Thanks Altransit

OK, so that leaves the one on the tail end of the transmission as pictured above on the left. I might just have to "suck it up" and source/buy a new sensor and see if that fixes it. Will report back with the outcome in a few days.

[Altransit]

[davethegardener]

Hi there, one of the other guys on site told me to look at your problem as it seem very near to mine, I to have a transit 2005 2.4 with same auto box, and mine was fine one minute then after driving for say 2 mins the throttle pedal went dead no power and so pulled over stop engine and re-started pedal came back a bit and give me 01st and 02nd but no more so the van could not do more than 25 mph got home just! and then found had no reverse or 3rd 4th or 5th, also noted that when in neutral it does not rev? Like you don't want to be ripped of by ford as so many bad story's on here about people not knowing what there doing when working on this van! I think its just so cool to drive and up an till this problem my van has been sweet for the 2 and half years I have had it, I look forward to your reply.

Many thanks Dave

[samwhich]

Hi Dave, where are you from?

Sounds like you might be in "Limp Mode" - slightly different to my issue but here are some things to try:

- Check to make sure your Vehicle Speed Sensor is still plugged in and wiring is not faulty. See pic below - left yellow arrow pointing at VSS
- If you are in limp mode and restarting your vehicle wont fix the issue, there is probably a major fault with a component in your drive train that needs attention. Clearing you fault codes would be a temporary fix to get you up and running. If the issue is real an not a glitch on the computer/electrical system, it will reoccur though. To clear your codes, buy a cheap bluetooth ELM327 scanner from ebay (China or local), plug it in and connect to it ONLY with a windows based laptop with bluetooth enabled. Use the free ForScan software as this is the only one that works and it works well! (The phone and ipad apps don't seem to work on Transits!)
- Alternatively I think you can clear your codes by disconnecting the + battery terminal for 10 mins or something to that affect. (search this forum for the exact method)
- EGR valve fault can cause your symptoms from memory which costs about $400-500 to fix at the ford dealer - which is a rip off IMO if you see how basic it is to do the job.

Get an ELM327 ScanTool and go from there I reckon. Best ~$20 you'll spend and you'll learn lots about your van! Happy to compare notes from the scan results too if your keen!

[davethegardener]

Hi Ya,

Many thanks for info, will do as you say and get back to you with what I find? hope all is going well with your van now?

Cheers Dave

[samwhich]

Bugger! Running even worse now some how? I also jiggled round the wires running to the sensor on the drivers side front wheel (abs sensor I think it is?) and the outside casing seemed brittle. ...

Might have to take this thing to Ford for them to check it out and maybe i might get away with having the transmission bled or TCM software updated.. ..here we go....