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Rear brake issue mk5

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Rear brake issue mk5

Postby HanRover » Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:10 am

Hi all
First post here, bit stuck with my brakes. Got a 97 smiley mk5 and it seems like only the front disk brakes are working with nothing much from the rear.
I can slow and stop but I've really got to push hard. No screeching suggesting worn pads, pumping doesn't help so wouldn't have though it just needs bleeding.
A freelance mechanic gave it a drive and suggested maybe it was a pressure issue, something about a diaphragm??
Maybe I should just go to a garage but I feel like if I can locate the issue I'm probably capable of doing the repair. Any basic signs or checks to look out for?

Thanks!!
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Re: Rear brake issue mk5

Postby knobby1 » Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:12 am

HanRover wrote:Hi all
First post here, bit stuck with my brakes. Got a 97 smiley mk5 and it seems like only the front disk brakes are working with nothing much from the rear.
I can slow and stop but I've really got to push hard. No screeching suggesting worn pads, pumping doesn't help so wouldn't have though it just needs bleeding.
A freelance mechanic gave it a drive and suggested maybe it was a pressure issue, something about a diaphragm??
Maybe I should just go to a garage but I feel like if I can locate the issue I'm probably capable of doing the repair. Any basic signs or checks to look out for?Thanks!!


If you're not good with DIY or not mechanically minded...I'd suggest you get it to a good garage....

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Re: Rear brake issue mk5

Postby dumper » Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:52 am

X2 on use a good garage if you’re not confident but on my mk3 190 the load sensing valve seized inside and had no rear brakes even tho rod and arm was moving ok I think my mk5 had different set up and had a a inclined valve bolted to the body and no connecting rod to the body/ axel and was in the middle of the van als possible rear flex pipe split inside and not letting fluid to the brakes
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Re: Rear brake issue mk5

Postby gotgcoalman » Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:59 am

check the load sensing valve moves freely.
It's the thing joined to the axle by a coil spring.

lol start typing and made a cuppa before posting. :roll:
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Re: Rear brake issue mk5

Postby HanRover » Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:01 pm

I am mechanically minded, I'm a bike mechanic by trade so I understand the mechanisms just slightly newer to vehicle repairs.
I think I've been suggested to check the load sensing valve before actually but didn't know what it was called to find more info! Will look into that first. Ta
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Re: Rear brake issue mk5

Postby Keef » Sat Dec 15, 2018 11:41 am

Or possibly the vacuum pump on the back of the alternator failed meaning no servo assist giving you the Impression that only the front brakes are working?
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Re: Rear brake issue mk5

Postby V184 » Sat Dec 15, 2018 8:56 pm

Keef wrote:Or possibly the vacuum pump on the back of the alternator failed meaning no servo assist giving you the Impression that only the front brakes are working?



i think he would know if the vacuum pumps rodgered :lol: :lol: :lol: i would check the rears are adjusted ,w/cylinders ok , handbrake cable not seized etc
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Re: Rear brake issue mk5

Postby wojciech » Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:07 am

HanRover wrote:Maybe I should just go to a garage but I feel like if I can locate the issue I'm probably capable of doing the repair. Any basic signs or checks to look out for?


1.First check, if break lever is going up very high - over ten teeth
2. Using suitable screwdriver (medium wide, but long) adjust break self-adjuster so, that turned drum only very lightly rubbing at break shoe. You do it through special oval hole in break plate, when you delete rubber cap. For this work you can lift wheel first on one side, later on second. If you do it on the street, you can remove wheel.
3. Now adjust hand break lever that it works max. for three-four teeth (using turnbuckle under car).

For future: pulled hand break lever position (because on how many teeth it is blocked) it is very good indicator if rear breaks work correctly. If hand break lever start to works on too many teeth (6-8), the time has come for control with self break adjusters.
This rear break adjusting is enough for about 10.000 miles, maybe more...

Cause of incorrect self-adjusters work is, that rear self adjusters have too big backlash - between claw of spacer and hole in ratched (red arrows on the picture). It works ok maybe per 50.000 miles, later backlash is bigger, and bigger...
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Re: Rear brake issue mk5

Postby HanRover » Tue Dec 25, 2018 2:30 am

Keef wrote:Or possibly the vacuum pump on the back of the alternator failed meaning no servo assist giving you the Impression that only the front brakes are working?


Bingo! Ended up popping to a garage and after a 10 second test drive got this diagnosed. Bought a new pump from eBay and one easy install later everything is much easier!
First vehicle Ive owned, last owner told me it was as new pads needed bedding in and I was a bit naive. Learning all of this the hard way :roll:

Thanks for all the comments, that diagram looks super useful for when I do eventually need to adjust brakes drums
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Re: Rear brake issue mk5

Postby HanRover » Mon Dec 31, 2018 3:28 am

Following up from this, today it failed again. Is there something else that could be causing the vac pump to fail? Struggle to believe that a new one would last just a week under normal conditions.
Could it be an electric fault preventing it from drawing power from the alternator? Also I don't really get what the oil in and return is for, just to lubricate the pump or is it something else?
Loathe to just replace the same part again!
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Re: Rear brake issue mk5

Postby gotgcoalman » Mon Dec 31, 2018 6:55 am

check the splines on the alternator shaft the pump fits on to for dammage.
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Re: Rear brake issue mk5

Postby dumper » Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:30 am

The oil also cools it make sure you have no restrictions in the pipes also did you prime the pump with oil as you fitted it or it’s maybe a bad pump
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1974 mk1 v4 with 2.0 pinto fitted
1986 mk3 2.5 di swb
1990 190 lwb 2.5 di
1998 100 lwb 2.5 di
2006 350 jumbo 135 tdci
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Re: Rear brake issue mk5

Postby HanRover » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:59 pm

So the day after the new vac pump stopped working my van also wouldn't start with symptoms of a flat battery. I'd driven a few hundred miles over the weekend so should have got in a good charge.
The vac pump sits on the back of the alternator - could it be that the alternator has failed rather than the pump? Or that somehow both have failed together?

Getting more and more frustrated with this van and trying to prep for an MOT that I don't want to spend a fortune on! :(
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Re: Rear brake issue mk5

Postby wojciech » Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:55 pm

With broken alternator you should have alternator control red light on. You didn't write about this...
First take multimeter and check charging voltage. It should be 13,5 - 14V with engine speed about 2000 rpm.
If charging voltage is ok, maybe battery is old and finished or start motor is broken- dirty inside , with broken bearings or with broken solenoid switch.
Check also highcurrent cables on battery and startmotor.
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Re: Rear brake issue mk5

Postby HanRover » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:24 am

I've done tests with the multimeter and driven it a bit and it seems very much like the battery issue was just a cold weather blip as it seems fine now.
I've disconnected the leisure battery in case that was draining it some how.

I went back in to investigate the fuel pump today and removed the oil feed and return pipes. The return pipes was clogged with a solid lump of something which I've nowanaged to remove, but the new pump i installed has a similar lump of something wedged in the nozzle to the return pipe. I've done some reading and I think these are vaned vaccum pumps, however both the old and the new parts have empty slots where the vanes would sit. This leadse to believe that the blockages I found might be the vanes, crumpled up and compressed, of both pumps.
Can I buy new vanes? Seems unlikely.
Is it the blocked return pipe that case the vanes to pull out of the new pump? Or could it be something further that caused the issue? I'm reluctant to install a second pump in case it brakes again!
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