Help diagnosing why 2.5Di won't start in the morning

[Keef]

Yes, it certainly looks like you have a flame plug fitted although I don't think it's a factory fit as the factory fit took the fuel supply from the filter rather than the injection pump. It does sound like the red button on your dash may be for the flame plug, try pressing it for 30 seconds before you try to start next time you use it.

The round thing is part of the exhaust gas recirculating system which most people blank off so isn't important.

[bambi mk 1]

Before doing anything fit an extra pair of battery leads parallel to the ones already fitted

What?!?! Please elaborate. Is this advice only for when I'm trying to test the cold start device as Keef explained? Or something missing on my van at the moment? And how would I go about getting or attaching these leads?

Keef,thanks for the extra info. I"ve attached a few more pics; perhaps you can get a better view now?

Also, someone in the Econoline group I have on Facebook suggested that these engines need sometimes 10 turns of the starter before they cold-start. I did try that this morning at 35F and after about 10 turns, it did fire up! So I am actually quite excited that the van might be "OK" as is. Especially in light of the information that these Di engines don't have ANY system to preheat the fuel (except for that optional system).

Bolt 2 extra leads from the battery ,one to the live on the starter and one to an earth on the engine.The cold start and excess fuel is not working on it either.The brass switch with the red centre and two terminals is not connected,you need an ign switched live to it and a wire from it to the rheostat on the pump.The cable inside the rubber boot on the pump may be broken as the lever should be fully back when the engine is cold.Try pushing the lever back with a handle of a hammer when someone else turns the key

[hetman]

Before doing anything fit an extra pair of battery leads parallel to the ones already fitted

What?!?! Please elaborate. Is this advice only for when I'm trying to test the cold start device as Keef explained? Or something missing on my van at the moment? And how would I go about getting or attaching these leads?

Keef,thanks for the extra info. I"ve attached a few more pics; perhaps you can get a better view now?

Also, someone in the Econoline group I have on Facebook suggested that these engines need sometimes 10 turns of the starter before they cold-start. I did try that this morning at 35F and after about 10 turns, it did fire up! So I am actually quite excited that the van might be "OK" as is. Especially in light of the information that these Di engines don't have ANY system to preheat the fuel (except for that optional system).

Bolt 2 extra leads from the battery ,one to the live on the starter and one to an earth on the engine.The cold start and excess fuel is not working on it either.The brass switch with the red centre and two terminals is not connected,you need an ign switched live to it and a wire from it to the rheostat on the pump.The cable inside the rubber boot on the pump may be broken as the lever should be fully back when the engine is cold.Try pushing the lever back with a handle of a hammer when someone else turns the key

Great, informative post. Thank you. Now I'm lost, and need some further explanation. How large/thick should these leads be? So, you are talking about things which are missing on my van, correct? One lead from the negative battery post goes to the engine, as a ground (earth), and another lead from the positive battery post to the starter?

"The cold start and excess fuel is not working..." On my van? Which cold start are you talking about? The optional flame plug which it seems is installed in my van? You can tell it's not working by the missing wiring? And about the excess fuel...what is that? I understand that attached to each injector is a fuel hose return line. The cylinder closest to the front of the van has a fuel return line coming to it but another rubber hose seems to be blocked off. I was curious about that. Should it be open and leading to some other place? If so, to where should I lead it? This means that no excess fuel can escape; that sounds not good.... and could be causing what problems or symptoms if it is not working?

The brass switch (thank you!) with the red center is not connected. There should be a wire from the ignition attached to one terminal and another wire from the fuel pump (the Bosch mechanical fuel pump?) to the other terminal....OK. I will look to see if there are the remains of these wires somewhere that I can splice into. Why would someone delete this (and the other things)?? Which lever are you referring to? Can you see this in the pictures? Is this lever part of the Bosch mechanical fuel pump on top of the engine, or are you talking about the small fuel pump at the back of the engine which draws fuel from the tank? I will post a picture of that. Can you show me where the rheostat is and the rubber boot you mention? Perhaps a picture of a healthy engine so I can compare?

This is the exact sort of information I need and have been missing. Thank you so much.

EDIT: I just went outside to look at the engine again. Based on your explanation, I can now make out that the thick blue cable is indeed running to and connected to a flame plug system, which is not factory, as mentioned. Someone has added an aftermarket flame plug, and yes, the fuel is being drawn from the top of the Bosch pump! The other end of the thick blue wire goes to a cheap-looking relay hanging above the battery, and then leads to the positive battery post, and there is also another small wire going back to behind the firewall, which I'm sure must lead to that glow plug actuating button on the dash. Also, I checked the injectors and return line again, and there is a hose running from the rear-most cylinder down to the fuel filter lines (return line). So that should be working correctly, or not?

[Chug]

Yes Mike as you found the DI diesel needs a bit more cranking over in the cold than the warm, but lucky you having a flame plug fitted already Took me a bit of time to source all the bits and a morning to fit mine!

if you remove the breather hose behind it and look carefully through the hole in the manifold you should be able to see it giving off smoke and maybe even the flame, if the switch on your dashboard doesn't give power to it, then try another wire direct from battery positive to the small wire on the relay that goes to the dashboard.

As Bambi has pointed out you also have the cold start/advance system on your Bosch pump, this advances the pump timing slightly so allows more fuel for cold start, and can be tested by pushing the lever on the side inside the rubber gaiter boot, if it makes a difference to starting you can try getting it fixed up but you shouldn't need it if the flame plug works ok, if flame plug doesn't flame, then at least the fuel supply and wiring are in place so you just need a new flame plug(or maybe a cheap switch, or relay) which are about about 10 pounds over here and simply screw in, so it's the easiest option.

[hetman]

Yes Mike as you found the DI diesel needs a bit more cranking over in the cold than the warm, but lucky you having a flame plug fitted already Took me a bit of time to source all the bits and a morning to fit mine!

if you remove the breather hose behind it and look carefully through the hole in the manifold you should be able to see it giving off smoke and maybe even the flame, if the switch on your dashboard doesn't give power to it, then try another wire direct from battery positive to the small wire on the relay that goes to the dashboard.

As Bambi has pointed out you also have the cold start/advance system on your Bosch pump, this advances the pump timing slightly so allows more fuel for cold start, and can be tested by pushing the lever on the side inside the rubber gaiter boot, if it makes a difference to starting you can try getting it fixed up but you shouldn't need it if the flame plug works ok, if flame plug doesn't flame, then at least the fuel supply and wiring are in place so you just need a new flame plug(or maybe a cheap switch, or relay) which are about about 10 pounds over here and simply screw in, so it's the easiest option.

Thank you Chuggy. You and the others have been very wonderful in helping me understand my van. I didn't know what to look for. I am also delighted that my van already has a flame plug fitted! So today I went out there and it was about 28F (below freezing) and I simply tried starting it and it took about 12 cranks of the starter (one turn of the key) and fired right up. I haven't been using that red button on my dash since this problem, and I wanted to find out if the flame plug is working, so I checked everything the best I could and found the electrical connection to the flame plug itself suspect (loose). A sheet metal screw had been used to tie it together and had worked slightly loose, I presume. I secured the connection by using a standard 4mm bolt and locking nut, and cleaned and sprayed oil on all the electrical connections to the relay and battery, and starter. Then, excited to see if it worked, I unplugged the big vacuum hose as you suggested and pushed down the red button on the dash for less than 30 seconds and started noticing smoke emanating from under the hood. It was slightly warmer there too. Put it together, and pushed it again for about 20 seconds and then started. It came to life after about 6 cranks of the starter. This was also on a cold engine, many hours after I'd started it cold this morning. So we're on to something here!! LOL.

I will try to figure out how to connect those wires to the brass/red switch in the engine block. Still would like to see how that operates, but I believe the suggestion to add more leads to the battery is simply to ensure a better, stronger current? Not that I'm missing it but that a thicker cable will always make it easier to start due to a stronger current?

[twin wheel camper]

Yes Mike as you found the DI diesel needs a bit more cranking over in the cold than the warm, but lucky you having a flame plug fitted already Took me a bit of time to source all the bits and a morning to fit mine!

if you remove the breather hose behind it and look carefully through the hole in the manifold you should be able to see it giving off smoke and maybe even the flame, if the switch on your dashboard doesn't give power to it, then try another wire direct from battery positive to the small wire on the relay that goes to the dashboard.

As Bambi has pointed out you also have the cold start/advance system on your Bosch pump, this advances the pump timing slightly so allows more fuel for cold start, and can be tested by pushing the lever on the side inside the rubber gaiter boot, if it makes a difference to starting you can try getting it fixed up but you shouldn't need it if the flame plug works ok, if flame plug doesn't flame, then at least the fuel supply and wiring are in place so you just need a new flame plug(or maybe a cheap switch, or relay) which are about about 10 pounds over here and simply screw in, so it's the easiest option.

A heathy di shouldn’t need cranking over in the U.K., I know this thread is from a much colder climate.
I’ve got 2 transit TD,s, a epic and a Bosch conversion, the Bosch needs a fair old crank it the cold but my epic TD starts like a modern petrol engine
I’ve never seen a better starting Di even at below zero it starts first touch of the starter and it isn’t even being driven in years(camper conversion needing restoration) I don’t know if the epic is the reason or is it just a real good starting engine

[Chug]

Excellent news that it works Mike
I did some of testing with mine when I first got it and found for cold starts to let mine run for 20-25 secs and it started up like summer
even after over a week of no use during bad icy weather with a good 30 sec flame it started up fine.

I've not played much with cold start mechanisms on pumps as I've never had one in the transits I've owned, but I think you should be able to test it with a lead from positve batt, I'm sure bambi or minor matt will know
And yes new/extra cables are to make sure all the available battery power gets to the starter and not getting lost through old cables.

Twin wheel,
what I meant was that it aint gonna fire up after one or two turns of the engine like it will the rest of the year, it sounded to me like Mike was expecting it to.

[hetman]

THank you, Twin Wheel Camper. I guess the epic is a better system for cold starts.

Chuggy, yes, that's what I meant. I didn't know what to expect, essentially, from diesel engines (their reputation is that they're hard to start in winter). The times I was cranking it over, I only let the starter crank 6-8 times (with a petrol engine that should suffice). Knowing that this type of engine seems to need 10-12 cranks, well, that is great information! Now with the flame plug working, I shouldn't fear using the van in colder temps, and will schedule my affairs accordingly.

So, the Bosch injection pump is not working correctly, or the cold start feature is not. Naturally I'd like to fix that eventually. This brings me to the brass switch in my engine block which is missing wires. Can anyone tell me what it is? It's a switch? Not a sensor (temp sensor, for example)? If it is to be hooked up to the injection pump, what is its function?

I will work on attaching additional leads to the electrical system as suggested, but not sure yet how much more copper I need between the starter and the battery (and earth). See, I'm trying to use British vocabulary. LOL

Have a nice day.