Euro 5 engine, crankshaft tight.

[islebiker]

Hi All.
I have an issue that I am hoping someone can help me with. I have a Citroen relay in with the euro 5 engine. It has been over heated and the block has been warped.
So I have got another euro 5 transit engine which has had a big end failure. I have swapped the crank over from one engine to the other, but it feels tight turning it over. this is on the main bearings.
I have noticed the original crank has 2.4 on it and the new one has 2.2.
I have tried the bearings from the old engine that the crank was originally in.
Not sure what is happening, the crank and bearings were fine in the original block but tight in this one.
the original transit crank seemed to be free enough and i could feel the big end knock by turning it by hand, although the mains were a bit shot.
Any suggestions would be gratefully recieved.

[knobby1]

Hi All.
I have an issue that I am hoping someone can help me with. I have a Citroen relay in with the euro 5 engine. It has been over heated and the block has been warped.
So I have got another euro 5 transit engine which has had a big end failure. I have swapped the crank over from one engine to the other, but it feels tight turning it over. this is on the main bearings.
I have noticed the original crank has 2.4 on it and the new one has 2.2.
I have tried the bearings from the old engine that the crank was originally in.
Not sure what is happening, the crank and bearings were fine in the original block but tight in this one.
the original transit crank seemed to be free enough and i could feel the big end knock by turning it by hand, although the mains were a bit shot.
Any suggestions would be gratefully recieved.

You can't just swap cranks and bearings from one block to another, they need to be properly measured and matched, no two cranks or blocks are exactly the same...a crank & bearings from one block may not fit in another, all else being equal. The bearings are coded to each block and crank. Engine building isn't always as simple as most people think.

Lord Knobrot

[metalworker0]

1 You are not supposed to oil behind the shells. there should be no grit behind shells ..surgical cleanliness is necessary.
2 Is it bent, meaning: get the dial gauge out ...and measure its run-out ..with ladder removed. only one shell in each journal installed, its really meant to be done between centres on a jig ..but it will give you an idea
3. You need to torque exactly to spec and working centre out.
4. some engine manufacturers had colour coded shells ,...so standard crank may have up to 4 different grades of standard shell to cope with manufacturing tolerances.
5. You cant mix and match shells from one engine to another .,.,you may have to buy all new main bearing shells plus big ends.
6 you can measure with plastiguge to work out which one is tight
7. without the faculties ..you can wrap emery cloth around the crank bearings surfaces and polish a few thou off then use platiguge to see if it has the required clearance
8 . it would need polishing anyway...you would never fit a raw crank withoutr doing this.

or take the block and crank to a engine re-conditioners or machine shop and have them do the fit up .

all the best.mark

[islebiker]

Thank you for the replies. I Have built it properly and used assembly lube instead of oil. It is meticulously clean.
I was an apprentice at a Rolls Royce garage a long time ago, and have built many motorcycle engines.
Think I am gonna put my original block in the machine shop and have it skimmed, my thoughts are that maybe heat from the bottom end going in the transit engine has warped it somehow. Has anyone known this?

[metalworker0]

NOTE: as far as skimming is concerned - these engines have no leeway for it ..valves will hit the pistons if only a small amount is taken off the head..they usually require thicker head gaskets or the valve seats re-cut to take the valves deeper once skimmed.
if skimming the block ... lets say more than 0.5mm (not sure of the exact amount) has been taken off - they will require the piston crowns to be machined.

all the best.mark

[islebiker]

Thank you for the comments.
I have re checked the main bearing shells and found that it was tight on the thrust bearing in the centre, so have ordered another set. Seems weird but the bearing was the same one that was in the previous engine. It did have thrust sides that had some float on the main bearing so thinking it was a special part and that the previous block had been resurfaced in that area. The standard one from the transit crank seems to fit well so ordered them.
Head has been Skimmed, but the skimming was around the edges as it seemed to have dished. Around the cylinder surfaces there was witness marks from the skimming but not any metal removed so hoping as far as valve clearance is concerned shouldnt be an issue.
I have gone up from a 2 notch gasket to a 3 notch.
Still I seem to have lots of spares now so hoping this will keep going for a while.

[George Liquor]

I recently swapped the crank in my 2.4 which turned out to be from a 2.2 with another 2.2 crank as my 2.4 engine had a failed big end then i had the head skimmed, i also used a 3 notch gasket the old gasket was 3 notch also, i used the main shells from the 2.2 engine as they were in good order and replaced the big end shells, so far no problems regarding the crank or the head apart from a failed temp sensor, i also used the cam shafts and rocker ladder from the 2.2 engine, the only difference i could find between a 2.4 crank and a 2.2 was one had 2.4 stamped into it and the other had 2.2

[knobby1]

I recently swapped the crank in my 2.4 which turned out to be from a 2.2 with another 2.2 crank as my 2.4 engine had a failed big end then i had the head skimmed, i also used a 3 notch gasket the old gasket was 3 notch also, i used the main shells from the 2.2 engine as they were in good order and replaced the big end shells, so far no problems regarding the crank or the head apart from a failed temp sensor, i also used the cam shafts and rocker ladder from the 2.2 engine, the only difference i could find between a 2.4 crank and a 2.2 was one had 2.4 stamped into it and the other had 2.2

2.2 cams are different too, as the 2.2 drives the fuel pump from the end of the inlet cam. The 2.4 does not.

Lord Knobrot

[George Liquor]

I recently swapped the crank in my 2.4 which turned out to be from a 2.2 with another 2.2 crank as my 2.4 engine had a failed big end then i had the head skimmed, i also used a 3 notch gasket the old gasket was 3 notch also, i used the main shells from the 2.2 engine as they were in good order and replaced the big end shells, so far no problems regarding the crank or the head apart from a failed temp sensor, i also used the cam shafts and rocker ladder from the 2.2 engine, the only difference i could find between a 2.4 crank and a 2.2 was one had 2.4 stamped into it and the other had 2.2

2.2 cams are different too, as the 2.2 drives the fuel pump from the end of the inlet cam. The 2.4 does not.

Lord Knobrot

That is true but apart from the slot cut into the end of the exhaust cam shaft there is no other difference, the lengths and profiles are the same.
I have just had a look on google images and i see what you mean with the big boss on the end of the inlet cam shaft, the engine i took the shafts out of did not have this just the slot in the ex shaft, the engine was 2013 2.2 115bhp rwd