Dual Mass Flywheel

[Swanning_it]

G'day all and a merry Christmas to everyone

I hear UK and EU are having some shitty cold weather of late, so I trust you're all keeping safe. We're the exact opposite, a few weeks ago I noticed 39oC out on the deck.....air-cond on full adding to climate change I'm afraid.

Now that I've stirred up the bloody weather and climate change debate ( ) I may as well ask my question

Why are manufacturers going toward DMF's?

Has it something to do with the new breed of high pressure, small capacity, high power/torque diesels?

I also note in recent threads, mention of conversion to a solid flywheel. Are these Ford original parts and if so, why not just fit them from new? I'm so confused

Ian

[winterheating]

G'day all and a merry Christmas to everyone

I hear UK and EU are having some shitty cold weather of late, so I trust you're all keeping safe. We're the exact opposite, a few weeks ago I noticed 39oC out on the deck.....air-cond on full adding to climate change I'm afraid.

Now that I've stirred up the bloody weather and climate change debate ( ) I may as well ask my question

Why are manufacturers going toward DMF's?

Has it something to do with the new breed of high pressure, small capacity, high power/torque diesels?

I also note in recent threads, mention of conversion to a solid flywheel. Are these Ford original parts and if so, why not just fit them from new? I'm so confused

Ian

thats more or less why yeah, and to increases comfort and economy.

there not a bad thing, you just have to treat them as a full changable part, clutch and flywheel, its not as if they fail that much more than a normal clutch and solid flywheel.

if manufactures could get away with fitting cheaper then they would, but DMF's really are needed. plus its not a new technology, theyve been around for over a 2000 years.

[dumper]

i think thay put a d/mass flywheel on cos thay do not last long thay are building in faults to moden vans & cars to get them back into the dealers so they have work to do at 15000 ml services thay will not get a lot of work .

[Vee4]

Why are manufacturers going toward DMF's?
Has it something to do with the new breed of high pressure, small capacity, high power/torque diesels?

Read the references here, while you are sunning yourself on the deck, although you have almost answered your own question:

viewtopic.php?p=457302#p457302

I was a stranger to the DMF until buying the Mk7. Having done the research, I agree with winterheating. I can't find it in myself to be as cynical about the DMF as dumper - his comment could apply to any of the 'features' added to modern vehicles.

[dumper]

hi i have two resens to hate dmsf i know that it is not a transit but i allso have a fiat doblo cargo jtd which my dad got new it did 12.000 as a working van now the only time it gets anywhear near a load is two fishing trips iraland apart from two dmfs in 5000 mls by main dealers and in between box out to fix faulty slave cylinder and why do thay fit it inside the box i thaink jack up the bill again. that was less then 22.000mls on the van and the first time i have a clutch in 20yrs as for what the manafacter tells us is just a load of spin unlike this form you lads tell it like it is

ps when i worked on a fleet of cars vans & truck in the 80s & 90s not many had a clutch fitted at less 100.000 mls

[Vee4]

in the 80s & 90s not many had a clutch fitted at less than 100,000 mls

Agreed. On my previous Transits, the clutches outlasted the vans. On the Mk5, it was done at 100,000 miles because the gearbox had to come off anyway and it was still on the second clutch at 271,000 miles. I'm not sure how the Mk7 will fare. Other members' experience varies greatly.

[Swanning_it]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Interesting viewpoints.

I'm somewhere in between. I love the Mk 6 I have, but the abnormal amount of time it spends getting repairs is a real downer. I also realise to get the power it delivers out of such a small engine, obviously requires change, hence the reason I asked the question. I see no one has ventured a comment on the solid flywheel conversion. Are these a genuine part or not? If genuine, why not just fit them from the start? It seems that would eliminate the need to replace them (and the starters etc etc).

Mine was replaced at 92000 km under warranty but Ford mentioned that the flywheel alone would have cost me AU$2500 (about 1250 GB pounds). We get ripped off out here usually with spare parts prices, but if this is a regular "maintenance" cost, it seems disproportionately large to me.

Ian

[ake]

You can get a Ford Solid Flywheel however they are just as contravertial as DMFs cos in some cases they lead to excessive driveline vibration, Some love em, some hate em

[Swanning_it]

Thanks Ake, appreciated! Any idea of cost compared with a DMF?

[ake]

They are not that dear over here, but to you probably some silly price Try having a look on ebay uk to get an idea

[winterheating]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Interesting viewpoints.

I'm somewhere in between. I love the Mk 6 I have, but the abnormal amount of time it spends getting repairs is a real downer. I also realise to get the power it delivers out of such a small engine, obviously requires change, hence the reason I asked the question. I see no one has ventured a comment on the solid flywheel conversion. Are these a genuine part or not? If genuine, why not just fit them from the start? It seems that would eliminate the need to replace them (and the starters etc etc).

Mine was replaced at 92000 km under warranty but Ford mentioned that the flywheel alone would have cost me AU$2500 (about 1250 GB pounds). We get ripped off out here usually with spare parts prices, but if this is a regular "maintenance" cost, it seems disproportionately large to me.

Ian

on the genuine conversion its up to you, the way i think of it is solid is ok if the transmission has been built to take the extra abuse that a DMF dampens.
the early FWD 100ps mk6 were fitted with dmf, then they canged the driveshafts, and started fitting solid flywheels
then the RWD's all have DMFs as there built to take more weight and have higher torque output to start with.

if a dmf takes away vibration, its basically sacrificing itself to protect transmission and engine, reducing fuel consumption, and increasing comfort and drivability.

no matter what people say DMFs are actually a good thing and manufactures will continue to fit them when needed.
all makes and models can have clutches fail at silly miles like 12k, cos of the drivers, if a DMF can go for over 100k then its not a major problem.

i know a taxi firm that have quite a few 0-06 tdci's that have the same DMf flywheel fitted as the 125ps tdci mk6 fwd transit, and they say theyve onl;y had to do a few so far with milage of 200-300k.

also quality parts that ford make like slave cylinders, are a lot more robust than replacement parts, or FIAT parts.if i needed new concentric slave cylinder, id either get a new ford one or secondhand ford one, but not a pants QH or something.

the question you have to ask yourself is what milage has the original Dmf covered, and would it be acceptable to do that milage again if it was replaced with the correct DMF.
also how has it been driven all its life.

or replace with solid, which is only going to ruel out the flywheel ever failing, but still could have premature clutch failure as more stress be put on the clutch springs and also could be driver fault. also have increased fuel consumption, increased vibrations, more stress on gearbox, engine and drive train.

[mbev51]

hi
I've followed the dmf/ smf debate on this forum for a long time. For my 2.0 tddi 100 bhp manufactured 09/01 I will replace the dmf with the same, probably a luk. My original dmf/clutch has done 135k kilometers so far, probably will do another year or so yet, so I will be quite happy putting in a new one, the smf kits for my van are quite expensive, around 300 pounds.

[GBBiker]

I don't want to enter any debate but I've had several MK6s with DMF. Not one has had a clutch last more than 30k. I've had several MK4 and MK5s with SMF. Not one of them has wanted a clutch change before about 80k.

[ake]

I thik you are in the minority there gbbiker, cos if every MK6 clutch was gone at 30k ford would be in trouble, our Y reg 100ps had 90k on it when we got rid and it was on its orginal clutch and DMF, although the DMF was starting to fail, and my own MK6 did over 100k with me on original clutch

[winterheating]

I don't want to enter any debate but I've had several MK6s with DMF. Not one has had a clutch last more than 30k. I've had several MK4 and MK5s with SMF. Not one of them has wanted a clutch change before about 80k.

trevor revver