Another MK2 Type 9 4 speed to MT75 5-speed swap

[Ward.]

5-Speed ​​Swap Information Wanted:

I own a Hymer B522 '82 (LHD) and have been considering converting it to a 5-speed gearbox for some time. The Hymer is built on a Ford Mk2 Transit FT120 SWB chassis with a 2.0L OHC Pinto engine, a standard 4-speed gearbox,two piece propshaft and a square rear axle. It drives great, the ratios are very usable, but an overdrive would make it very pleasant on 70-90 km/h roads.
I know I can change the differential to lower the revs, but the camper is quite heavy and then I lose too much power on the hills

Photo of the project:

d98f149b-b7c8-4d22-96d9-62fcc7abe016.jpg

I've spent hours trying to gather information in Facebook groups and forums, but they're somewhat contradictory. That's why I'm asking the question again, hoping to find people here who have actually done it.

As far as I know, there are three options:
- Type 9 (Hard to find and weaker design)
- Laycock Overdrive (I found a few, but there is no driveshaft/gearbox support available and afaik specific to the overdrive models)
- MT75 (Readily available)

So, the MT75 is my preference (although I'll have to drill a new hole in the floor). Before I disassemble everything, I'd like to gather the correct parts. Can anyone help me complete the list below?

What I definitely need:

- MT75 gearbox (There are multiple ratios available, but according to my information, it's not visible from the part number?)
- MT75 Mk3/4/5 gearbox support (With minor modifications?)
- Pinto adapter plate
- MTT75 gear lever
(- Cutting out the floorboard of an MK3-4-5 is optional)



What I'm finding conflicting information about:

- Clutch cable (Can I use the original one?)
- Driveshaft (Can I use just the front part of both the SWB and LWB? Some say you have to make a custom driveshaft)
- Flywheel/clutch (Some say the original 4-speed Pinto flywheel + 2.5Di clutch, others say you need to use the MK3/4/5 Pinto flywheel with the 4-speed clutch)
- Speedometer cable (Which gearboxes have the analog connection, and which cable should I buy?)
- Starter (Can I use the original 2.0 Pinto?)
- Will the exhaust still fit with the bigger gearbox?



Thank you very much!

Once my list is complete I can start searching!

[metalworker0]

Limited knowledge here .. the type 9, 5 speed was only considered weak if people let the oil level go down.. because the 5 th gear had marginal lubrication. keep it topped up and free from leaks and i believe it was good... that's in a car though .. not so sure of how it holds up on something weighing over 3 tonnes

i would think prop shafts lengths would be a problem with all types of conversions.
silly fact - some of the type nines had ridiculously heavy cast iron bell housings ... which meant if you are lying on your back fitting it, it's a big struggle with the weight. been there and got the oily sweaty t-shirt award. -----mk1 sierra


all the best.mark

[dumper]

I know on the mk 3 to fit a mt75 you had to cut the gearbox tunnel out of the 4 speed and weld in the 5 speed tunnel back in the day there was loads of Mk 3s with the tunnel cut in breakers yard now I’m not sure if that applies to the early 5 speed box..
If you can find one the 4 speed plus overdrive would be a easier fit I did this conversion on a mk 2 diesel not sure if petrol and diesel are same on the clutch side this conversion used the mk3 long wheelbase set up into the mk2 long wheelbase I don’t remember doing anything with the prop shaft the electrical connection for the overdrive was in the loom already so plug and play the only other change was a new speedo drive needed a longer cable I did the same conversion on a mk3 swb this I had to get the prop shaft professionally shortened for this conversion I didn’t get the gearbox crossmember so had to cut the centre out of it and lower it as the overdrive is deeper one advantage of the overdrive boxes basically you end up with six gears with you having overdrive on third and overdrive on fourth but there’s not a lot of difference between overdrive third and the standard fourth gear but it’s very handy for overtaking and keeping in the power band on hills instead of changing up fourth flick it into overdrive .

[bortaf]

it's been a couple of decade sice i did it (lol) but i seem to remember the type 9 has a splined sliding joint and the my75 has a fixed yoke with a rubber doughnut on the output side so prop needed changing and the speedo cable, never changed a trans tunnel just cut a new hole for the gearstick BUT it was a lifetime ago

[Ollie]

I've got a pinto adaptor plate with flywheel etc in the shed so I'll photo that tomorrow, starter was standard from memory , Mt75 box is a lot wider in bellhousing area so exhaust might need modding, but in all seriousness your problem isn't really number of gears, a pinto buzzes along quite nicely on a 4 speed and I agree an overdrive box would prob be easier to stop the buzzing on a level motorway.

lets be honest about your list, youre unlikely to find everything you need without a bit of phaff but making gearbox mountings and getting props shortened or altered is the easy stuff, getting gearboxes that are worth rebuilding costs money as does building them! Ive plenty of odds and ends around but very little can be used "as found" so the real cost will allways be in rebuilding the bits, but serious question is what spec is your engine? low or high compression single or twin choke carb?, most tranny engines are single choke low compression and struggle to produce 75 - 80hp whereas high compression pistons and a high torque At low rev) cam and a better exhaust manifold will make hills much more pleasant!

Gearing is a funny thing, I've just ruined my 110 land rover with a discovery high ratio box! yes its quieter at 70mph, Empty, but its working at quite a high load and the steps between the gears are now so big its much harder work when towing or loaded right up. fuel economy, not a jot different its just less pleasant in the real world!

Your camper will be heavy and not very aerodynamic, so the engine will need to spin up to generate the sort of power needed, gearing it higher will prob just leave you labouring the poor thing!

Quick example, ford in their wisdom fitted 5 speed boxes to the orions and escorts back in the late 80s and on the motorway they were nice and quiet in 5th, bit limp but ok, one day i was tired and forgot i had a 5 speed one and returning a 200 mile motorway trip at 75 - 85 mph - fuel economy was actaully 10% better! as the engine was spinning faster, but on a much lower loading, before everyone screams I know that pintos aren't CVHs but still a van spec cam will allow them to spin quite well with acceptable eficiency.
If you want to go fast quietly, then tune the engine a bit and fit more soundproofing, its a lot easier!

[Ralph.9]

I have a full overdrive kit but it has a LWB prop so im trying to source a SWB Prop

[dumper]

I have a full overdrive kit but it has a LWB prop so im trying to source a SWB Prop

You could take your propshaft to a specialist and get it modified all I did with mine take the measurements they required the company I used back then used to advertise in auto trader so long time ago I think it was boroughs of Bradford .

[Ralph.9]

The overdrive prop is longer than the standard one & the centre bearing is further forward so it need the bearing mounting adapter plate as well.

[Ward.]

Thanks for all the replies.

I've got a pinto adaptor plate with flywheel etc in the shed so I'll photo that tomorrow, starter was standard from memory , Mt75 box is a lot wider in bellhousing area so exhaust might need modding, but in all seriousness your problem isn't really number of gears, a pinto buzzes along quite nicely on a 4 speed and I agree an overdrive box would prob be easier to stop the buzzing on a level motorway.

lets be honest about your list, youre unlikely to find everything you need without a bit of phaff but making gearbox mountings and getting props shortened or altered is the easy stuff, getting gearboxes that are worth rebuilding costs money as does building them! Ive plenty of odds and ends around but very little can be used "as found" so the real cost will allways be in rebuilding the bits, but serious question is what spec is your engine? low or high compression single or twin choke carb?, most tranny engines are single choke low compression and struggle to produce 75 - 80hp whereas high compression pistons and a high torque At low rev) cam and a better exhaust manifold will make hills much more pleasant!

Gearing is a funny thing, I've just ruined my 110 land rover with a discovery high ratio box! yes its quieter at 70mph, Empty, but its working at quite a high load and the steps between the gears are now so big its much harder work when towing or loaded right up. fuel economy, not a jot different its just less pleasant in the real world!

Your camper will be heavy and not very aerodynamic, so the engine will need to spin up to generate the sort of power needed, gearing it higher will prob just leave you labouring the poor thing!

Quick example, ford in their wisdom fitted 5 speed boxes to the orions and escorts back in the late 80s and on the motorway they were nice and quiet in 5th, bit limp but ok, one day i was tired and forgot i had a 5 speed one and returning a 200 mile motorway trip at 75 - 85 mph - fuel economy was actaully 10% better! as the engine was spinning faster, but on a much lower loading, before everyone screams I know that pintos aren't CVHs but still a van spec cam will allow them to spin quite well with acceptable eficiency.
If you want to go fast quietly, then tune the engine a bit and fit more soundproofing, its a lot easier!

It has the original Low Compression Pinto engine, I replaced the VV carb with an Weber ICH34 kit. I'm currently happy with the low-end torque; it suits the old campervan.
The current 4-speed gearbox has good ratios for such a campervan; it's a slow way to travel, yet still manages to keep up with traffic. I think it has a 5.14 differential, but I'll have to check that out.


Another note:

1) In Belgium, the technical inspection is quite strict, so it's preferable that it looks original-ish.
2) It would be useful to know that parts are available if I break down on the road. If an overdrive gearbox breaks down, you're immediately stranded and your holiday is over, while an MT75 should be more robust and, if broken, also relatively easy to find in the EU.

Found these MT75 gearbox ratios and compared it with the orginal 4-speed ratio :

MT75-----C8 Close ratio--W8 Wide ratio----E8 Close ratio---------------Original
1st ----------3.89--------------- 4.17---------------3.61------------------------ 3.65
2nd ---------2.08--------------- 2.24---------------2.08------------------------ 1.97
3rd ---------1.34--------------- 1.47--------------- 1.34------------------------ 1,37
4th ---------1.00--------------- 1.00--------------- 1.00------------------------ 1.00
5th ---------0.82--------------- 0.82----------------0.82


The current plan is: MT75 close ratio gearbox

In my opinion a C8 or E8 gearbox would be ideal. The ratios are very close to the original, plus a 5th gear with overdrive.
Ideal on paper: plenty of pulling power thanks to the short differential, yet with overdrive.

Research tells me that in addition to the adapter, I need the corresponding MK3/4/5-specific flywheel, so the standard clutch kits and starter will fit. I could also make a hybrid driveshaft using the front section of an SWB Mk3/4/5 and the rear MK2 section. The Mk3 gearbox support would be a plug-and-play fit. It does need to be an MT75 gearbox with a mechanical drive, which might indicate the wrong speed, a mk3 speedo cable should fit. I still need to look into that. The only exception is the hole of the gear lever, but the carpet is being replaced anyway, so that shouldn't be an issue.

I only need to check the exhaust and clutch cable. My brother can weld so the exhaust is no issue.

Those who have already done this are welcome to share their experiences, thanks.

[Ollie]

Like the 34 ich, works simply and unlikely to go wrong, but if youre still low compression and not driving on 2 star in the 3rd world somewhere you will get a worthwhile improvement in every way from higher compression.
Anyway Ive finally got tghe photos of what some of the bits look like.

IMG_4788.JPG

you can see how much bigger the adaptor plate makes the bolt circle it to go on a Mt75

IMG_4790.JPG

rusty flywheel

IMG_4794.JPG

mt75 ina mk1 but the crossmember is 1990 transit mt 75 one

IMG_4792.JPG

and the clutch assembly, which looks like a standard and very large/heavy 2.5Di one!