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what is acceptable (engine/gearbox wise) for historic status

Transit Mk1 & 2 Forum. All Transits 1965 - 1986

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what is acceptable (engine/gearbox wise) for historic status

Postby ventadorn » Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:26 pm

Hi my 1974 Mk1 pickup has historic vehicle status (applied for by previous owner) yet has a 2.5 di and an MT75 box fitted. Is this going to cause me problems in the future? The di is the same capacity as the York and is a diesel though I think the di didn't come on the scene until 1986. And the MT75 box wasn't around at the time either.
If this will void the historic status is it possible to fit a 2.0 l pinto as this engine was around from 1970 onwards? I am confused as to whether the engine has to be a period engine or one that was actually fitted to a particular vehicle as a factory option.
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Re: what is acceptable (engine/gearbox wise) for historic st

Postby Neil » Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:00 am

it will be tax and mot free if you do it online just follow the instruction
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Re: what is acceptable (engine/gearbox wise) for historic st

Postby DougT » Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:31 am

For Road tax, the change to engine and gearbox don't matter.

For MOT, vehicle must not have had "substantial change" in order to be exempt.

From www.gov.uk

"Engine
Alternative cubic capacities of the same basic engine and alternative original equipment engines are not considered to be a substantial change."

The di is arguably the same basic engine as the York so that should be OK.

Gearbox change is OK but there have been a number of comments in previous posts about whether the hole cut in the chassis for the MT75 gearstick is a change to the chassis.

But since the govt seem to have classified all Historic vehicles as not needing an MOT, it is up to you to say if an MOT is definitely needed. Personally for the next few years, I would feel happier having an MOT certificate in my pocket just in case until the situation is clearer.

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Re: what is acceptable (engine/gearbox wise) for historic st

Postby ventadorn » Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:13 pm

"Engine
Alternative cubic capacities of the same basic engine and alternative original equipment engines are not considered to be a substantial change."

The di is arguably the same basic engine as the York so that should be OK.

-Yes I am struggling to make sense of the regs. I think you could well argue that the di is a development of the York, as you say, and a slightly different capacity. But "alternative original equipment engines?" Could I fit a 2.0 litre pinto if I wanted to? It wasn't offered as original equipment on the mk1. Whereas a 3.0 litre Essex was (though rarely)
I am guessing that the rules are meant to exclude hotrods and prevent people fitting V8's and then claiming tax exemption. But it all seems a bit weird - presumably fitting a 1300 crossflow (!) to a mk1 is not allowed but a V6 is?
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Re: what is acceptable (engine/gearbox wise) for historic st

Postby DougT » Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:10 pm

Yes that is about it. Weird rules but as you say - they want hot rods to have MOTs, which I find understandable as some of them are not put together well.......

So V6 Essex in Mk1 (or even 3.3L Falcon engine..) does not count as substantial change but Pinto does. But any size Pinto in Mk2 is OK even though chassis parts are the same. It is crazy but at least we can swap between diesel and petrol. France, Netherlands and others cannot change fuel type even if both existed in that type of chassis.

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Re: what is acceptable (engine/gearbox wise) for historic st

Postby Neil » Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:48 pm

on the other hand a hot rod that's been mot d with its v8 since 1979 why would that not be exempt now after years of testing :?:
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Re: what is acceptable (engine/gearbox wise) for historic st

Postby DougT » Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:15 pm

Actually Neil that would be exempt under the 30 year rule. Any mods done 30 years ago or more don't count towards substantial change. But how do they know it was done 30 years ago ??? And that is a rolling 30 years so in some respects they have said if time proves it to be OK then they will accept it. I guess they put the responsibility for proving when it was done onto you but they are still weird rules.

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Re: what is acceptable (engine/gearbox wise) for historic st

Postby DodgeRover » Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:18 pm

The rules say engine changes can be for economy or environmental reasons and be ok also anything that was done commonly within 10 years of the end of manufacturing is ok.
Based on that a pinto or zetec or rover v8 would be fine.
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Re: what is acceptable (engine/gearbox wise) for historic st

Postby ventadorn » Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:48 am

DodgeRover wrote:The rules say engine changes can be for economy or environmental reasons and be ok also anything that was done commonly within 10 years of the end of manufacturing is ok.
Based on that a pinto or zetec or rover v8 would be fine.


Well that is encouraging. I have a decent di but they are pretty noisy and if soundproofing doesn't cure it I was thinking of a pinto.
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Re: what is acceptable (engine/gearbox wise) for historic st

Postby loot » Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:20 pm

Hmm so my 4 x 4 kuga automatic conversion would be a bit cheeky then? :lol:
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Re: what is acceptable (engine/gearbox wise) for historic st

Postby dumper » Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:17 am

The outher period engine that gets forgotten is the 1600 cc Kent engine bit under powered through
MK 8 L4 H3 Motorsport campervan
Past camper vans
1974 mk1 v4 with 2.0 pinto fitted
1986 mk3 2.5 di swb
1990 190 lwb 2.5 di
1998 100 lwb 2.5 di
2006 350 jumbo 135 tdci
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Re: what is acceptable (engine/gearbox wise) for historic st

Postby ventadorn » Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:14 pm

dumper wrote:The outher period engine that gets forgotten is the 1600 cc Kent engine bit under powered through

It's a nice engine and for a van or swb pickup maybe fine? Can get overbore to 1700 as well
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Re: what is acceptable (engine/gearbox wise) for historic st

Postby dumper » Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:29 pm

ventadorn wrote:
dumper wrote:The outher period engine that gets forgotten is the 1600 cc Kent engine bit under powered through

It's a nice engine and for a van or swb pickup maybe fine? Can get overbore to 1700 as well

Yes if you also put twin 45 Weber / carbs / 4 branch exhaust system/ cam and big valve head you can get 160+ bhp but maybe not a lot of good for pulling a loaded van
On a more serious comment back in 1986 I did put a two Litre
MK 8 L4 H3 Motorsport campervan
Past camper vans
1974 mk1 v4 with 2.0 pinto fitted
1986 mk3 2.5 di swb
1990 190 lwb 2.5 di
1998 100 lwb 2.5 di
2006 350 jumbo 135 tdci
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