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Anyone know what this part is?

Transit Mk3, 4 & 5(smiley front) Forum. All Transits 1986 - 2000

Anyone know what this part is?

Postby meerkatmag » Tue May 19, 2020 6:49 pm

I'm guessing this is a fuel purge valve? But not too sure. It's in a 1988 transit diesel. Can anyone confirm the part?
IMG_20200519_172502.jpg
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Re: Anyone know what this part is?

Postby wojciech » Wed May 20, 2020 9:05 am

This is a fuel solenoid valve for flame start system. It is controlled by an electronic module.Opens fuel to the flame plug during a cold start and a few minutes after start. The system usually works below -5 degrees Celsius.
http://www.catcar.info/ford/?lang=en&l= ... MCsyNzI%3D
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Re: Anyone know what this part is?

Postby meerkatmag » Wed May 20, 2020 9:06 pm

Amazing knowledge! Thanks for this. I had no idea my van had this system fitted.

Is there any way of testing if it's working? And how does it operate, does the module sense the outside temperature and only start the system when temperature is low enough? Is there a dash light when it's operating, presumably before you turn over the engine, I've never seen it come on. There's no button or switch or anything on the dash.

To be honest I don't think I've ever started the engine at -5c. You might have noticed in the pic that the fuel cable at the bottom has come apart. I was trying to fix it and there was diesel inside the pipe, so maybe it has operated at some point?

Thanks for your help,
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Re: Anyone know what this part is?

Postby wojciech » Wed May 20, 2020 10:24 pm

meerkatmag wrote:Is there any way of testing if it's working?

There is a control module in the engine compartment. A control connector is connected to the module - two pins. If the control connector is shorted - the module will operate regardless of the temperature, after turning on the ignition.

meerkatmag wrote:And how does it operate, does the module sense the outside temperature and only start the system when temperature is low enough? Is there a dash light when it's operating, presumably before you turn over the engine, I've never seen it come on.

This is probably the most unreliable system of all Ford cars. :evil: If it works, then for the first 3-4 years. Later it's just a dummy with a maliciously working control light.
In the Mk5 model from 1997 there is a new third module, maybe it is better, more reliable. I do not know...
Second - the system works when the temperature in the engine compartment is below -5 Celsius. It may be -20 Celsius outside, but with a warm engine it won't work. So the system usually works after a night stop in the appropriate cold.
The control light should be where I marked the arrow in the attachment. I don't know your clocks well.
The module first turns on the indicator on instrument panel,solenoid valve and flame plug. When the light is on, the plug gets full voltage + 12V (it has a nominal voltage of about 8V). A cold engine gets hot fumes from glow plug and starts it easier. When the indicator goes out, the plug is powered by a lower voltage through a resistor - the system works for some time after starting the engine.

Many vans in the UK do not have this system because of the mild Atlantic climate.
An efficient 2.5D engine with good compression starts very well after a night's stop in the winter - without this system.

meerkatmag wrote:To be honest I don't think I've ever started the engine at -5c. You might have noticed in the pic that the fuel cable at the bottom has come apart. I was trying to fix it and there was diesel inside the pipe, so maybe it has operated at some point?

If you have no problems starting the engine, leave it alone. We have global warming, according to smart girls ... :?
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Re: Anyone know what this part is?

Postby meerkatmag » Thu May 21, 2020 4:36 pm

So I've been doing some digging in my engine bay. Theres 4 wires, the solenoid valve has an earth and a wire on the top. The fire plug in the manifold has a wire on it, also there's a wire to the water pump which joins the loom with the others.. Not sure if that's part of the system?

Anyway if I put the ignition on I get no 12v from the top of the valve or the wire on the manifold. If I short the two wires on the valve nothing happens.

I found a diagram online that showed the module which controls the system.. do you know where that module is on the van? And I can't find any blown fuses but it must be fused somewhere?

I know I'll never need it but really want to get it working for my own sanity.

Thanks for the help!
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Re: Anyone know what this part is?

Postby wojciech » Thu May 21, 2020 6:41 pm

1. Mk3 had a 9-pin module, Mk4 and Mk5 until 1998 had a 10-pin module.
2. Probably from 08.1998 Mk5 has an 8-pin module (by half smaller) and the system does not have an external large ceramic resistor.
3. The question arises whether you have a 10-pin version or a smaller 8-pin version?
4. Early versions of the module have an additional 2-pin plug for testing the system (hanging on the wiring harness).
5. Earlier modules are powered directly from the battery without a fuse. How the 8-pin module is powered - I don't know, I don't have a schematic. :(
6. The module should be mounted on the wheel arch in the engine compartment. But I do not know on the left or right, in UK a lot of things are the opposite ... :roll:

What the 10-pin and 8-pin modules look like - see the attachments
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Re: Anyone know what this part is?

Postby meerkatmag » Thu May 21, 2020 8:43 pm

It's an a-class motorhome so the engine bay is altered quite a bit, there's no wheel arches anymore visible in the engine bay. It's. MK3 1988 so sounds like the 9 pin module that you mentioned. I will have a look for it. The wires disappear into the dashboard so I hope they haven't installed it inside dash somewhere.
Thanks!
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Re: Anyone know what this part is?

Postby wojciech » Thu May 21, 2020 10:47 pm

As for the wheel arches -I have problems with technical English. :oops: So - wheel arch in the engine compartment I understand as the side wall of the engine compartment above the wheel. Sorry.
Second - my mistake, it seemed to me that the van is 1998. :wink:
Ok - now the situation is clear, you should have a 9-pin module. The two-pin control plug must be somewhere there, it looks a bit like the plug on the attachment. I can't find a picture of the original plugin. To test the system, these two pins must be shorted with a piece of wire.
But I think your module is corroded inside. You should open it and check the condition of the circuit board. It is possible to replace the 9-pin module with a 10-pin module. If you know the electronics a little, you can regenerate the module yourself.

But first check the individual elements of the system:
- apply + 12V voltage to the solenoid valve and check for knocks
- unscrew the flame plug and check if it glows and is clear of fuel
- check control light, short-circuit (to the ground) the brown-black wire (pin K of the module), ignition switched on - the indicator in the panel should be on.
If you do not have an electric scheme - I can post.
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Re: Anyone know what this part is?

Postby meerkatmag » Fri May 22, 2020 12:01 pm

Ok I think I found the control module, looks like a relay?
IMG_20200522_115654.jpg


Only 4 connections, is this it?
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Re: Anyone know what this part is?

Postby wojciech » Fri May 22, 2020 2:46 pm

meerkatmag wrote:Ok I think I found the control module, looks like a relay?
IMG_20200522_115654.jpg


Only 4 connections, is this it?
No, it looks as start motor relay . Or for something else.
Have you seen the 10-pin module in the attachment? The 9-pin connector looks the same, it can be in a black housing. There should be a large ceramic resistor nearby, it looks similar to a fan resistor.
The system could have been redone by previous owners. For manually controlled from the cab. The module is very unreliable.
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Re: Anyone know what this part is?

Postby meerkatmag » Fri May 22, 2020 3:57 pm

Right found it, couldn't see the wood for the trees! On right hand side of van above wheel (like you said).

IMG_20200522_154452.jpg


And when I short the wires on the test connector this happens on the dash for about 2 seconds and I can hear a solenoid click.

IMG_20200522_155100.jpg


I would have said that was a choke symbol? But anyway.

I'm going to wait until I have someone else with me to see if it lights.

Looking good so far though. Thanks for all the help and I'll post an update soon when I try it for real.
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Re: Anyone know what this part is?

Postby bobbari123 » Sat May 23, 2020 7:31 am

Hi.
I am rebuilding my mk3.
I can check my instrument cluster tomorrow.
Yours almost look like it is from petrol transit , but let’s see how mine is.
I also need to check out whole glow plug system.
I live in northern europe and that system is needed in winter.
I have not driven with this car yet, it is kind of full rebuild.
But i have owned couple of mk5 and it was working at those.
One thing is that you need to bleed out summer diesel from those pipes when you can have winter diesel from gas station.
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Re: Anyone know what this part is?

Postby meerkatmag » Sat May 23, 2020 10:49 am

Yours almost look like it is from petrol transit

Yes I had this thought too. The van even has a fuel filler that says 'petrol' so I have wondered if it had an engine swap. However why would you bother to fit the cold start if it was an engine swap? In the UK it really isn't needed. Could be just a dash replacement.

I wonder if theres any way if telling if it's a swap, I think the vin plate is original does that list the engine code?
Good luck with your rebuild is it a camper?
M
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Re: Anyone know what this part is?

Postby jamie182 » Sat May 23, 2020 11:06 am

on my mk4 diesel the choke light used to cycle when you turned the ignition on it didn't have the flame start fitted.
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Re: Anyone know what this part is?

Postby meerkatmag » Sat May 23, 2020 12:07 pm

jamie182 wrote:on my mk4 diesel the choke light used to cycle when you turned the ignition on it didn't have the flame start fitted.


Interesting... Mine has never done this before, only seen this light when I activated the cold start. Is your choke light in the same place? (Left most indicator on the lower set of lights).
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