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Bosch pump on pre smiley 2.5di

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Bosch pump on pre smiley 2.5di

Postby justin100 » Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:22 pm

I want to put a bosch injection pump from a 2.5di banana engine onto a pre banana 2.5di (in a mk4 pre smiley face transit) to replace the old leaking lucas pump. Is it a straight swap, just pump, pipes and bracket or is the timing pulley/belt different? Also does anyone have one for sale? Cheers
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Re: Bosch pump on pre smiley 2.5di

Postby gotgcoalman » Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:43 pm

MinorMatt will probably have all the info and bits you need.

If he doesn't step in give him a PM.

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Re: Bosch pump on pre smiley 2.5di

Postby Keef » Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:14 pm

You'll need a new timing belt, the one for the Lucas CAV pump has a different teeth depth. It would be wise to replace it anyway.
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Re: Bosch pump on pre smiley 2.5di

Postby justin100 » Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:01 pm

Keef wrote:You'll need a new timing belt, the one for the Lucas CAV pump has a different teeth depth. It would be wise to replace it anyway.


Yes it would have a new belt fitted but presumably that means the cam and crank belt pulleys would be different too. Can I just swap the fuel pump pulley from the Lucas pump onto the Bosch one and keep the original tooth depth?
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Re: Bosch pump on pre smiley 2.5di

Postby V184 » Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:26 pm

Keef wrote:You'll need a new timing belt, the one for the Lucas CAV pump has a different teeth depth. It would be wise to replace it anyway.



Nothing to do with the type of pump it was changed at certain years up to 91, 91 on, 98 wider belt ?

Wax stat cable different on the early Bosch
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Re: Bosch pump on pre smiley 2.5di

Postby cherniy_chack » Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:43 am

To successfully change the old Lucas to Bosch after 92 years, you need to change the crankshaft and camshaft pulleys for a belt with a tooth height of 3.5 mm.
The Bosch pump pulley with a low 2.5 mm tooth has three fixing bolts, the Bosch pump pulley with a high 3.5 mm tooth has 4 fixing bolts and a different size of the center hole.
Bosch pulleys can be replaced together with a hub pressed onto the pump shaft without a key, so installation errors are possible.
It is very likely that Bosch and Lucas pump hubs are not interchangeable.
I think it is easier to find and replace the crankshaft pulley and camshaft pulley for a high tooth belt.
I did that.
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Re: Bosch pump on pre smiley 2.5di

Postby Keef » Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:01 am

I'm guessing you could fit a bosch pump with 3.5mm toothed pulley, just leave the other original pulleys and then fit a new 2.5mm toothed belt but change it more often?
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Re: Bosch pump on pre smiley 2.5di

Postby MinorMatt » Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:04 am

Keef wrote:I'm guessing you could fit a bosch pump with 3.5mm toothed pulley, just leave the other original pulleys and then fit a new 2.5mm toothed belt but change it more often?


Different profile teeth... the 2.5mm belt slips if used on the later pulley
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Re: Bosch pump on pre smiley 2.5di

Postby justin100 » Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:23 am

Ok, so It seems like I'm looking for a Bosch pump, crank/cam and pump 3.5mm pulleys, 3.5mm belt, inj pipes and rear pump bracket. Yes? Oh and some messing about with fuel pipes fittings I presume.
Do the different pump nos. (0460 etc) make any difference?
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Re: Bosch pump on pre smiley 2.5di

Postby cherniy_chack » Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:42 pm

justin100 wrote:Ok, so It seems like I'm looking for a Bosch pump, crank/cam and pump 3.5mm pulleys, 3.5mm belt, inj pipes and rear pump bracket. Yes?

Yes.
justin100 wrote: Oh and some messing about with fuel pipes fittings I presume.

No.High pressure pipes will remain old.
justin100 wrote:Do the different pump nos. (0460 etc) make any difference?

0 460 What this means, I do not know, but all the pumps that I have seen have these numbers.
For us, the following two groups of three numbers are important.
For us, the following two groups of three numbers are important.
4-pump type VE, 1-plunger diameter 11 mm, 4-number of cylinders.
The next group of three digits denotes a serial number indicating the specific applicability of the pump to a particular type of engine.
Here is an example of decoding a Bosch VE injection pump in Russian, a google translator will help. https://www.drive2.ru/l/518037103523659789/
There are even more such transcripts in English.
We consider the most successful and the newest BOSCH VE injection pump with the following markings: 0 460 414 145 or 0 460 414146.
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Re: Bosch pump on pre smiley 2.5di

Postby Chug » Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:13 pm

What the Bosch VE injection pump serial number means, for example 0 460 414 153

0= Denotes complete product
460= Product class, Distributor pump
4= Identifier for VE Injection pump
1= Plunger Diameter: 8=8mm,9=9mm,0=10mm,1=11mm,2=12mm,3=13mm & 4=14mm
4= Number of Cylinders
153= Application
******************************************************************************************************************
What the application numbers mean

using the 0 460 414 153 pump as an example again, a 153 is listed as VE4/11F2000R624-7

VE = VE rotary type pump
4 = number of cylinders
11 = 11mm plunger
F = mechanical governor (E = electronic governor)
2000 number = governor controlled RPM (this is pump rpm not engine rpm)
R = clockwise rotation (L = counter clockwise)
624-7 number = production number

******************************************************************************************************************

There are lots of pumps that will be ok as long as they are from 2.5di transit, its the last three numbers after 0 460 414 ***, some ones I know that are ok are
083, 085, 108, 119, 145, 146, 150, 152, 153

If you find a pump but are unsure post its number and I can lookup
1991(J) twin wheel tipper 2.5di
1994(L) twin wheel tipper 2.5di
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Re: Bosch pump on pre smiley 2.5di

Postby justin100 » Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:25 pm

Chug wrote:What the Bosch VE injection pump serial number means, for example 0 460 414 153

0= Denotes complete product
460= Product class, Distributor pump
4= Identifier for VE Injection pump
1= Plunger Diameter: 8=8mm,9=9mm,0=10mm,1=11mm,2=12mm,3=13mm & 4=14mm
4= Number of Cylinders
153= Application
******************************************************************************************************************
What the application numbers mean

using the 0 460 414 153 pump as an example again, a 153 is listed as VE4/11F2000R624-7

VE = VE rotary type pump
4 = number of cylinders
11 = 11mm plunger
F = mechanical governor (E = electronic governor)
2000 number = governor controlled RPM (this is pump rpm not engine rpm)
R = clockwise rotation (L = counter clockwise)
624-7 number = production number

******************************************************************************************************************

There are lots of pumps that will be ok as long as they are from 2.5di transit, its the last three numbers after 0 460 414 ***, some ones I know that are ok are
083, 085, 108, 119, 145, 146, 150, 152, 153

If you find a pump but are unsure post its number and I can lookup


Thanks for the info, now I just have to find all the bits!
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Re: Bosch pump on pre smiley 2.5di

Postby Chug » Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:14 pm

The lucas injector pipes will fit the bosch pump with a little fiddling and loosening off all pipe clamps, the bottom one nearest the engine is the worst, so do it first.
1991(J) twin wheel tipper 2.5di
1994(L) twin wheel tipper 2.5di
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Re: Bosch pump on pre smiley 2.5di

Postby justin100 » Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:36 pm

Chug wrote:The lucas injector pipes will fit the bosch pump with a little fiddling and loosening off all pipe clamps, the bottom one nearest the engine is the worst, so do it first.

Good tip, one less thing to find, cheers
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Re: Bosch pump on pre smiley 2.5di

Postby MinorMatt » Thu Dec 09, 2021 10:13 am

Chug wrote:The lucas injector pipes will fit the bosch pump with a little fiddling and loosening off all pipe clamps, the bottom one nearest the engine is the worst, so do it first.


On an EPIC - yes with a little bending they are fine...

But if you are converting to a bosch from a CAV you need the Bosch pipes - as 2 of the pipes are reversed
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93 L GL Minibus
96 P 150 TD 100PS LWB Hi-Top

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