Turbo Injector pump

[cbfhornet]

Has anyone converted a bosch pump utalising any other bosch pump parts to automaticly adjust the fuelling on a DI Turbo? A colleague and I have looked at a 200 series Land Rover pump and without going to deep in dismantling think that we might be able to use some of the 200 series pump parts and end up with the desired result.
I would welcome any suggestions and thoughts or maybe even an actuall solution if what I propose to do is not possible.

[75psT330lwb]

will be watching this thread

[IgorVigor]

I haven't converted a transit pump to an LDA top (from the standard HBA top), but it should be possible without too much effort

the pump tops are just an addon unit.

in the standard HBA top, the fuel pressure pushes the torque piston up, allowing the metering pin to move further out, allowing extra fuel to be injected.

on an LDA top, the LDA concentric cone actuates the metering pin.
as more boost is applied to the top of the diaphragm, it pushes the LDA concentric cone further down, allowing the pin to move further out, thus allowing more fuel to be injected...
the concentric cone is offset from the centre of the LDA rod though, so you can rotate the entire diaphragm/rod/cone, to adjust how far the pin can move out.


the main difference between the pump tops, is the HBA is full of diesel, whereas the LDA isnt.
I believe the HBA fuel feed hole is part of the HBA top (in the bottom of the chamber), but I'm unsure if fuel can also enter from the metering pin and lever location (having never taken a transit pump apart)


as for the LDA top, I believe the only difference on a VE pump is the concentric cone dimensions/geometry (for different engine sizes), so any LDA top should be usable.



EDIT:
For what its worth though, I'm not sure its worth the effort of fitting an LDA top.
the HBA top with the metering pin removed would more fuel than an LDA top (or the same if the cone or metering pin was removed...but then the LDA top wouldn't be doing anything anyway!)

[dieselhead123]

Why not use the whole pump?
Does it have the same taper on the front of the shaft?
If so....
Swap the drive flange and stick it on

That's providing you think that the 11mm fuel head will be big enough for your engine's state of tune

Remember........if there is NO smoke then you are not getting enough fuel
If there IS smoke......you need a BIGGER turbo

TIM

[jay]

most people havent found the need for a diffrent pump than the bosch pump off a transit engine as its easy enough to raise the fuel pressure..but this subject was raised a long time ago and I am pretty sure they didnt bother as once they looked into it they found it wouldnt work any better than a normal pump..

[IgorVigor]

and besides, turbo diesels should smoke a lot off boost, and then just a nice dark haze on boost



(I still want a turbo for my transit )

[dieselhead123]

[quote="jay"]most people havent found the need for a diffrent pump than the bosch pump off a transit engine

That is a very valid point, but......
Most people have not got a turbo the size of a dinner plate and an intercooler the size of a double bed

[IgorVigor]

there should be plenty of adjustment on the max fuelling screw to suit even the biggest turbo

if you want the ability to demand the maximum fuel all of the time....remove the metering pin from the HBA top......


as for a turbo.....I'd personally be thinking of something like a TD04-19t, but a GT2871 would be nice.......or a Holset HX35 or HX40.....

[btvanowner]

And deep pockets for fuel

[cbfhornet]

ok thanks for all your input.

so if the solution is to use the the standard bosch pump can anyone tell me what screws need to be adjusted and to what degree,i appreciate adjustment is a bit suck and see.

[IgorVigor]

actually, tuned turbo diesels can be surprisingly economical

you have SO much torque, under standard driving, you barely need 1/2 throttle



as for the injection pump tuning, there are 2 adjustments.

firstly the HBA top.
it has an adjustment screw under the cap which adjusts the 'midrange' fuelling.
loosen the locknut and turn the inner screw clockwise to increase fuel.
its commonly turned up on the N/A for a bit more power.

as I said before, I removed the metering pin, which allows more fuel when I demand it, especially at the bottom end of the rev range...

the second adjustment, is a little harder if your transit has the PATS system, as you need to remove the rear security cover.
there is the max fuelling screw which will most likely have an anti-tamper ring fitted.
once thats removed, you can turn the screw clockwise to increase maximum fuel.
its a MUCH more sensitive adjustment than the HBA top screw, as 1/4 of a turn will make a BIG difference.

both are trial and error adjustments.



there are other adjustments, such as adjusting the governor for more revs, but you would need to strip the pump to do it.
it requires you to shim the governor pin to add more preload on the spring.
more preload means higher RPM before the governor will cut the fuelling back.

if you did manage to max out the standard pumps ability to supply fuel, the only thing you could do, is to fit a larger plunger (a 12mm one)



when I fit a turbo, I will be fitting the turbo and see how the power/smoke is with the metering pin removed (as it currently is)
IF I need a bit more fuel, I would adjust the max fuel screw until I had the required amount of power/torque without excessive smoke.

considering on the 1.9~2.0L turbo diesels they fit an 11mm plunger from a transit, and modify the governors for 6,000rpm (and higher ), with BIG turbos and manage to make 200hp fairly easily, you can see why the transit would need a BIG turbo as well

[dieselhead123]

actually, tuned turbo diesels can be surprisingly economical

you have SO much torque, under standard driving, you barely need 1/2 throttle

I can confirm the above as accurate
The 'Chucklebus' just wants to pull from very low down the revs, pulls from 1500rpm to about 4250 and has the ability to do a 0-60 in under 10 seconds
And the ability to be very frugal when required.

I do believe that the stock 11mm fuel head is ok for a standard Transit turbo engine, but as soon as you look at engines above 2500cc, Bosch tend to spec a 12mm unit, 2800cc Iveco daily is an example.
My assumption is that the 11mm head is on the limit with a 2.5ltr as it is also used as you say on 2.0ltr engines, Perkins Prima being one.

If the op carries out the adjustments that you mention, he will be VERY happy with the result

TIM

[AndyG]

and has the ability to do a 0-60 in under 10 seconds


TIM

Come on I'm waiting to see at least one faster manual Di

[cbfhornet]

Thanks again for your replies

I will for now use the pump as it is but will continue to see if the 200 tdi top can be fitted just for the excersise and will keep you posted.

some time ago i can remember reading that the injection timing need to be manually adjusted when fitting a turbo but can not find the thread if anyone knows where that thread is can they paste it here or if anyone knows what the adjustment is can you let me know

many thanks

[IgorVigor]

I thought the Perkins Prima used the 9mm head still?

the peugeot XUD engines and the VW 1.9TDI engines all use the 9mm head.

they modify the injection pumps and fit the 11mm transit head to them, AND modify the governors for more RPM (as in 6,000rpm)
and get 200hp with relative ease (ignoring the engine strength)


so on a transit 2.5Di fitted with a big turbo, I can't see you needing bigger than the standard 11mm head unless your aiming for higher RPM than standard (more than 4,500rpm)
the Kia Sedona 2.9TD (pre common rail) still only uses a 11mm head.

the 12mm head was usually used on engines with more cylinders (5 and 6 cylinder for example)