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What works on 2.5TD to increase power? too many threads...

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Re: What works on 2.5TD to increase power? too many threads.

Postby eresseraca » Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:44 am

wobbles swapped the air filter for a pipercross panel filter. Didn't notice any difference, started to sound a bit different though. The diesel ticking sounds more mellow, or more bright to be honest. The high midrange frequency and seem to find it's way through any sound proofing seems less noticeable. So in the cab it sounds less annoying and more... modern I guess. At least I find newer diesel engines to have a higher frequency/more trebly sounding tick. So happy with it but I can't say it did much for power ;)

I fitted the blanking plate yesterday. Didn't notice much of a difference in the engine light, I stays on maybe 1 second longer when you start the van but nothing that one pays attention to. It was pitch dark so I can't say anything about smoke just yet. Went for a short drive to see if it felt different and it sure did. Wasn't a mind blowing difference at all but when accelerating it felt more direct and like a more energetic engine. So all good and happy with the results for such a simple mod!

Worth noting though is that mine didn't have much gunk and soot in the pipes from what I could see. I expected a lot from reading around, but it was more like a fine 0.5-1mm layer of soot in the pipes. I guess if you have a gunked up engine you might notice quite a bit more difference than what I did.

Going for a longer 500km drive during the weekend so still waiting to see how it feels when doing 80-100km/h for longer periods.
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Re: What works on 2.5TD to increase power? too many threads.

Postby eresseraca » Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:45 pm

Alright, so I did a longer 500km trip as well as have been driving a bit in city traffic.

I don't know if possible but it feels like it took a while before the engine settled with the modifications. As written above I did swap the air filter for a pipercross panel filter as well as blanked the EGR. Also pulled the stock hood liner and replaced it with 20mm thick reflective hoodliner foam.

The engine is noticeable quieter now when driving at city speeds, and with the ticking sound having a thinner and higher pitch it's much more comfortable and less like a tractor. Also standing next to the van on idle it's quieter on the outside as well.

There's definately a change in response, it pulls in a completely different way now in start-stop city traffic. A LOT nicer to drive! Especially noticed that accelerating in third gear if suddenly feels like there's a turbo working :wink:

Very happy with this so far!
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Re: What works on 2.5TD to increase power? too many threads.

Postby eresseraca » Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:40 pm

Alright, after some research I decided to go for a chip tuning option as well.

I found a manufacturer that sounds much more serious than the eBay two-wire boxes.

Küberl Tuning in Austria made/makes a fairly expensive chip option that is claimed to be made especially for the electronically controlled Lucas EPIC systems. I contacted them and they sent me forward to a Scandinavian company called KCR instead as Küberl only provide theirs for the southern parts of Europe (KCRacing or KCR sell their own branded boxes but I presume it's the same hardware as they look very much alike). I discussed with these guys a bit but their chip solution was 350€, too much for an old van imo. Being a multi-wire version though it doesn't just provide more fuel "all the time" but takes acceleration, speed, etc. into account on when and how much more fuel that should go through the pump, from what I understood the two-wire chips do give more fuel... but doesn't really take anything else into account.

Well wasn't ready to pay 350 so I lurked around a bit and found one of the Küberl chips on eBay that was new never used and for much cheaper, just got it in the mail! These chips have 7 wires that gets connected/soldered to the multi-pin connector going to the ECU (for non-turbo lucas equipped engines supported by the chip they have a 5-wire connector instead, two extra wires on turbo cabling is for boost pressure equalisation according to their website.

Here's a link to the CHIP IV info on their site: https://www.chiptuning.cc/en/chip-tunin ... p-iv-user/

We'll see what happens :mrgreen: Won't have time to install before Christmas though but during the Holidays I'll look into getting in installed and tweaked correctly! Hopefully it'll do something nice :) :shock: :lol:

Thought I'd update if someone else has been thinking or is interested in this!
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Re: What works on 2.5TD to increase power? too many threads.

Postby MinorMatt » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:16 am

Let us know how you get on... if it helps I have wiring diagrams
95 M Ford Prototype/Mule DRW 100PS Highcube
96 N 120 Turbo'd DI SWB Low
96 P 150 TD (100PS EPIC) LWB Hi-Top

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Re: What works on 2.5TD to increase power? too many threads.

Postby eresseraca » Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:07 pm

Many thanks Matt! I'll let you know if I need those diagrams!

And I'll keep u posted on this!
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Re: What works on 2.5TD to increase power? too many threads.

Postby wobbles » Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:58 pm

hey did you ever fit the tuning box ?? any updates ?

cheers for the news , I am going to do exactly as you did with the air filter , blank valve and hood noise foam , sound great
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Re: What works on 2.5TD to increase power? too many threads.

Postby eresseraca » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:48 pm

wobbles, up air filter, blank valve and foam on the hood were all three really positive and pretty cheap upgrades imo!

will try to get the tuning box installed during the Christmas Holidays. I'll post here how it goes!
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Re: What works on 2.5TD to increase power? too many threads.

Postby eresseraca » Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:02 pm

The chip box is finally installed, soldering its five wires to the ECU 55-pin connector was a major PITA! Apart from that pin 11 on the connector needed to be cut and one of the chip box wires connected to the cut wire and another to pin 11 on the connector. Hated that job as it was really hard to get to without burning other wires with the soldering iron.

Now it's there, pulled the cable into the cab and fastened the box in the dash underneath the cup holders so it isn't exposed to the elements. I tweaked it according to the manual without adding too much "boost" as that would introduce black smoke on acceleration.

There's without a doubt more power on tap, accelerates faster and the van is much more responsive. Impressive!

I'm happy with the results, that said I wouldn't have payed the asking price of a new box which is 350-500€. NOTE, That is for these variants from Küberl or KCR which is designed for the Lucas EPIC system and has 7 wires, not the 80gbp 2-wire Ebay chip boxes.

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Re: What works on 2.5TD to increase power? too many threads.

Postby MinorMatt » Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:53 am

Now that is interesting.

Do you have a part number or anything like that? Would you mind sending me a photo/scan of the wiring diagram and I might be able to work out what it does/how it works?
95 M Ford Prototype/Mule DRW 100PS Highcube
96 N 120 Turbo'd DI SWB Low
96 P 150 TD (100PS EPIC) LWB Hi-Top

Lucas laser 2000 & IDS onwner

Gaffa tape is like the force - it has a light side, a dark side, and it holds the universe together.
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Re: What works on 2.5TD to increase power? too many threads.

Postby eresseraca » Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:34 pm

It sure is. Everything can be placebo to some extent, but I'm pretty darn sure this isn't just placebo. It does go a lot quicker!

It seems from the pinout and the info I got (read below) that it obviously would need increase amount of fuel, but also adjusts the amount of increased fuel differently at different throttle positions and engine load. Hard to say of course if it ended up adding the 20hp and 40Nm that the dyno chart shows for the Transit 2.5TD engine here: https://www.chiptuning.cc/en/chip-tunin ... p-iv-user/

Both Küberl and KCR says it's designed for engines with the EPIC system. KCR model is named "Master I Lucas" and Küberl's is "CHIP IV Lucas". Küberl lists it compatible with the following makes/engines: MB 200 D; Citroen, Fiat, Lancia, Peugeot 2.1 TD; Ford Transit 2.5 TD

According to my emails with KCR, quotes translated from Swedish:

"The box increases the amount of fuel at the right load/"strain" and throttle. The chip box will receive and alter this information."

When I asked about and was worried about a significant increase in turbo pressure I got the following reply:

"The turbo pressure might increase a tiny bit, I don't think the ECU system adjusts the pressure as it does on more modern cars."

Note that my box is the brand Küberl from Austria. But KCR who sells, here in Scandinavia, what I suspect is the same box as it looks identical in every way with the same pinout. I just happened to score this one cheap on eBay so that's why I got the Küberl one even if they only sell them to southern/central Europe and KCR have the market up here in the north.

Below is a scan of the installation manual (a bit of broken English 8) ) for the Küberl box. I haven't dived into the Lucas EPIC Service Manual to look but I guess it'd be quite easy to figure out what the different pins on the T55 connector does on the ECU and see what parameters the Chip box alters/tweaks. 7 wires in total... power, ground, throttle/acceleration sensor, turbo, air sensor and fuel maybe?
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Re: What works on 2.5TD to increase power? too many threads.

Postby Jim Archer » Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:39 pm

Boost is governed by is a mechanical 'pressure pot' controlled wastegate.

Suspect it either piggybacks the temperature or spill-off control from the ECU. Most likely the spill-off as temp compensation won't give much adjustment.

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Re: What works on 2.5TD to increase power? too many threads.

Postby bagotransit » Mon May 07, 2018 12:56 am

eresseraca. I'm thinking about doing the same chip mod to my camper. It's been a few months since you did yours and I was wondering how your'e finding it now as far as fuel economy and power and smoke goes.
Do you think it's worthwhile doing?
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