*NOW BOOKED FOR 2024* Transitmania 15 @ Santa Pod 19th to 21st July 2024 *ALL DETAILS HERE*


Engine stopped while driving, will not turn over, lights on.

Transit Mk3, 4 & 5(smiley front) Forum. All Transits 1986 - 2000

Engine stopped while driving, will not turn over, lights on.

Postby Timelourd » Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:08 pm

1996 Transit 2.5DI Banana engine stopped while driving last week. I'm going to go down a list of all instances in chronological order to encapsulate the problem as succinctly as possible.

1. Engine stopped out while driving. There was the faint smell of plastics/electronics burning. We pulled over.
2. Attempt to restart engine yields no results. Battery has full charge and lights, etc, but no engine turnover.
3. Check all fuses, all ok. Checked starter relay, clicks when it's supposed to, but no engine turnover.
4. Reversed polarity on starter solenoid to attempt to bypass solenoid in case it's faulty, engine turns over but doesn't start.
5. Starter motor begins to whir, but now without engine turnover.
6. We call insurance for a tow to the nearest garage. Garage says they won't touch it because it's been "fiddled with". I assume they mean it's a camper van custom build and therefore they can't be bothered in case something is not as it is in a manual, or something. They do mention the PATS system, but since I'm stuck in France, I don't know exactly what they mean.
7. As they mentioned the PATs system, I assume only a Ford garage can fix it. I bring it to a Ford garage here in France, and the mechanic says he won't touch it because it's a custom build. He also goes on to throw a temper tantrum in French and tells me it will take too much time and money to fix (even though I have enough of both to spare) and starts telling me it's the solenoid, or the fuel pump, or something like that but I can't understand him because he's talking too fast. So, I go back to the van and begin working on it myself.
8. As I can only assume it's the PATs system engaged for some reason, since it turns over when I bridge the starter solenoid connection, I begin the process of bypassing the PATs system.
which involves removing a security cover from the fuel pump stop solenoid. (Pain in the neck)
9. Once that's off, I apply direct current to the solenoid on the fuel pump. Still no turnover and no start.
9. Verify electrical current to both the fuel pump solenoid and starter solenoid using an LED light while the engine is turned on with ignition keys. Both have power. No engine turnover, and of course no start.

At this point I've got only a few ideas:

1. Starter solenoid is actually goosed, and I've goosed the starter engine while trying to reverse the polarity. (But why the plastic smell, and why did the engine stop while driving?)
2. Fuel pump stop solenoid is goosed. Or something. I don't know.
3. There is another solenoid on the fuel pump which has some involvement with the PATs system that I'm not aware of.

I'm absolutely not a mechanic, and all this is probably far beyond my ken, but I'm stuck on the roadside in France, and there is nothing I can do but try one thing after another.

Any help will be appreciated. Additionally, if there are any whiz gearheads in central France right now who can lend a hand, I'll pay.

Thank you for your time.
1996 2.5di MK5 Banana Engine
Timelourd
Transit Addict
Transit Addict
 
Posts: 78
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2018 10:40 am

Re: Engine stopped while driving, will not turn over, lights

Postby Altransit » Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:42 pm

You have a PATS LED in the centre headlining, which will flash slowly when the van is at rest. If it begins to flash fast when you put the ignition on, then the immobiliser will prevent the engine turning over.

If the light goes solid, and then goes out, then the PATS isn't the problem.
1994 Mk4 SWB 115 Minibus 70ps Di (R.I.P.)
1997 Mk5 SWB 115 Minibus 70ps Di (Gone, but not forgotten!)
2004 Mk6 SWB T280 Medium Roof 85PS 2.0 TDDi - Vantunered (Also gone)
2008 Mk7 SWB T280 Medium Roof 85PS 2.2 TDCi - Also Vantunered
User avatar
Altransit
Site Moderator
 
Posts: 40197
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 12:23 am
Location: Bicester, Oxfordshire, UK

Re: Engine stopped while driving, will not turn over, lights

Postby gotgcoalman » Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:11 pm

Did you check the main fuses under the bonnet?
The box hidden between the battery and inner wing on a RHD.
ne m'écoute pas je suis plein de merde.
A house without a dog is like a forum without a BJT.
Too bloody quiet :shock:
User avatar
gotgcoalman
Transit Extremist
Transit Extremist
 
Posts: 12249
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:04 pm
Location: Aycliffe in County Durham

Re: Engine stopped while driving, will not turn over, lights

Postby Jim Archer » Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:50 am

Most likely the ignition switch is goosed, but it may well have been damaged by a short in the wiring somewhere.

When you switch on the ignition to the normal run position, can you hear a click from the pump? you will have to get quite close to hear it over the sound of relays switching elsewhere.

If you can hear it click, bridge the main terminals of the starter solenoid with a stout conductor - my injector bleeding spanner used to double as the emergency switch - keep fingers and stuff away from belts and the like, it's surprisingly violent if you're not used to diesels starting in close proximity.

Jim
Mk7 140 Jumbo - Vantunered.
289,000 and counting.
Jim Archer
Transit Fanatic
Transit Fanatic
 
Posts: 3434
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 6:45 pm
Location: Southampton

Re: Engine stopped while driving, will not turn over, lights

Postby baxi » Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:11 am

had the same problem , end up by - passing the pats system then starts , but will have to put a simple on - off switch into dash or the engine will not turn off ? .
baxi
Transit Addict
Transit Addict
 
Posts: 64
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:13 pm

Re: Engine stopped while driving, will not turn over, lights

Postby Timelourd » Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:57 am

baxi wrote:had the same problem , end up by - passing the pats system then starts , but will have to put a simple on - off switch into dash or the engine will not turn off ? .


Yeah that's what it was! I had to bypass everything.

I had to bypass the entire PATs system by connecting the ignition, fuel pump solenoid, and starter to the battery. The solenoid was attached through a switch which I mounted in the dash beside the steering wheel.

I can't remember the initial message, but I brought it to a "Ford Dealer" in france (lol) and the guy had a fit about my van being a self build. I went ahead and replaced the solenoid, which didn't help because it wasn't the solenoid at all. Turns out it was probably the chip controlling the damn thing. At first I just connected the fuel pump solenoid and the other systems to the battery and stalled it out to stop it. Then the switch came. I was never able to fix the chip or computer or whatever else it was, but at this point I don't care because it's functioning just fine.

I should mention I had to saw through the protective plate over the fuel pump solenoid (it's a steel plate protecting the solenoid and other systems, probably against theft, lol). I used a hacksaw, in case anyone is interested. You don't need an angle grinder to get through quarter inch thick steel, necessarily.

Anyway that French mechanic said it was impossible. I told him he owed me a job if I figured it all out. Too bad I got it all fixed on a Saturday, because before I put him in my rear view I'd have wanted to tell him to stuff it anyway. Haha!
1996 2.5di MK5 Banana Engine
Timelourd
Transit Addict
Transit Addict
 
Posts: 78
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2018 10:40 am

Re: Engine stopped while driving, will not turn over, lights

Postby Timelourd » Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:02 pm

I'm just going to put a bit more on this. The french Ford dealer just walked out to my car, which I had towed there, looked in the engine bay for all of 5 seconds, then went to turn on the ignition, and when he found no warning light, threw up his hands and threw a tantrum and said he couldn't help me.

He was the second mechanic to refuse my vehicle due to no warning lights coming on. I didn't mess with the system - either it went off itself or a previous owner deactivated it - but just know if you've got anything custom about your truck, most mechanics won't touch it - at least not ones in France.
1996 2.5di MK5 Banana Engine
Timelourd
Transit Addict
Transit Addict
 
Posts: 78
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2018 10:40 am

Re: Engine stopped while driving, will not turn over, lights

Postby Altransit » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:50 pm

I wonder if it was the two 5a PATS fuses in the drivers side fuse box (Fuses 32 & 33) I seem to remember that mine had no dash lights, when they blew as a result of the module shorting out :)
1994 Mk4 SWB 115 Minibus 70ps Di (R.I.P.)
1997 Mk5 SWB 115 Minibus 70ps Di (Gone, but not forgotten!)
2004 Mk6 SWB T280 Medium Roof 85PS 2.0 TDDi - Vantunered (Also gone)
2008 Mk7 SWB T280 Medium Roof 85PS 2.2 TDCi - Also Vantunered
User avatar
Altransit
Site Moderator
 
Posts: 40197
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 12:23 am
Location: Bicester, Oxfordshire, UK


Return to Mk 3, 4 & 5 - Second Generation Transits



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot]

This site contains affiliate links for which we may be compensated.