Bosch pump for Epic conversion

[matthias]

Hi,

al last I`m now going to replace my epic with a bosch.

The Epic is/was in my 97 Turbo.

The Bosch comes from my March 95 76 PS Banana and has the number 0460 414 108.

Just today i heard that the pumps from before 96 have less pressure than the later ones and are NOT suitable for such a conversion. May that be right??
Sorry, can`t find any informations about that.

And another question to the electrics:
On dismantling the pump from the engine I found a string of 7 thin black cables going into a black plastic cover on the pump (see photo) and coming out of the engine rh-side wiring loom (see photo)
For what these are and are they necessary?



To my knowledge after reading more or less all stories about the conversion there is only one ignition switched cable necessary for the selenoid.

Thank you!

Matthias

[jamie182]

That pump should be fine, you will have to remove all of the shielding on the back of the pump remove the pats unit and it will reveal a stop solenoid with a single ring connector on the top. 12v ignition live to that and it will run.
all the black wires and part of the Passive anti theft system. you don't need any of it.
when fitting the pump you will need to run the pump advanced slightly (not a tooth just advanced on the pulley)
once its up and running. with the engine off, wind the max fuel screw in a quarter turn at a time, drive give it full throttle. keep doing this until your getting a little bit of black smoke, then wind it back out around an eighth of a turn then you should be good to go. no smoke and plenty of power.

[matthias]

Thank you very much!

So the information is not right, that such an early pump (Transit from 03/95) has not enough pressure?
(Btw: As far as I remember „all“ the conversion I read of have been done with later ones?)

Aha, these black wires have to do with the PATS.... but where these cables are going to (not to the multiplug, where all the other cables go in)?

Will I need to take off the black plastic cover (special small screwhead) and remove the pats unit (which is underneath that?) or van I leave it in place?
But I may answer it myself: I need to take it off and put a ignition live to the selenoid, right?

And that selenoid has nothing to do with the other one, which cuts off the pump after Ign off?

Advancing will be done on the central nut of the pump, after loosening the three bolts of the pulley (turn a bit to the left looking from the front to it)?
Btw: So it`s best to leave the cambelt-cover off; or how to do that in a better way? Split the cover or cut a hole in it?

About the „tuning“ procedure I`ve read alreasy everything what has been written here by you and others. Many thanks for that too!

Thanks again!

[jamie182]

On the early pumps like yours there is two solenoids the one that sticks out the side of the pump attached to the lever on the side of the pump is the cold start advance (advances the injection pump timing slightly to assist cold start) in the uk most people just leave it alone with nothing connected to it. If your in a colder climate that the UK might be worth wiring it up to a switch, i wouldn't worry about it for now.

Yes you will have to remove the black plastic from the back of the pump ( just above where the four injector pipes come out) if i remember correctly its just a couple of Euro torx(female torx) head screws. i could be wrong its been a while since i stripped one down.
and yes you remove the pats unit and put a 12v feed to the stop solenoid.
http://dieselcatalog.online/en/bosch/04 ... 14145.html
this should help.

I think the reason people have done it more with the later pumps is simply because they more common.
as far is pressure is concerned they are exactly the same, both pumps the 0460 414 108 and 0460 414 145 both have the exact same cam plate No.1466110653 (this is the part that determines the amount of lift of the injection plunger) and also the same fuel pressure valve No. 1460362456 (determines internal pump pressure) and also the same delivery valves No.2463370021
so 100% this pump will work just fine (for the purpose of a manual pump conversion).
the way to advance the timing is fit the pump to the engine as normal, normal procedure for changing the timing belt ect...
once you have done that loosen the small nuts on the drive flange of the injection pump and rotate it anti-clockwise slightly using the big nut, ( do not undo this nut it will cause you to loose the internal pump timing) once you get to this step it will become apparent what has to be done.
no need to cut or drill the cover.
hope this helps let us know how you get on.

[vanfox]

When I replaced my pump I advanced it by pinning the cam wheel and pump wheel. Then insert a slightly smaller pin into the pump wheel and loosen the pump wheel bolts and turn the pump CLOCKWISE with the hub nut, lookin' at the front of the engine. The engine rotates clockwise so you need to advance the pump the same way. Using a smaller pin gives you some control over how far you advance the pump.

[jamie182]

yes my mistake you would have to rotate the pump drive clockwise, sorry about that.

[matthias]

Thanks very much again for your big help!

In the meantime I dismantled the PATS from the pump and it was as you wrote, but it`s only one small special (silly size, somethig in between T 27 and 30) torx head (which holds the black platic cap) so I cut the head of the bold off.
Then I saw where the cables go to, a few to the selenoid and the others to earth (fotos).




I can`t see another selenoid than the big one at the side, which must be the "Cut off" selenoid, and of course the one from the PATS, both need a 12 V ignition live, right?

Good to learn, that the pressure is the same on that older pump, thank you also for finding out!

Because of the way to do the advancing of the pump you need to do it from the front, where the cambeltcover would be in the way, so I thought of leaving it off or fit it with eather the top part cut off (and later fit) or cut a hole in it, so that I can modiefie the advancing easily.
But anyway, it`s not that important how to fit the cover.

Another few fotos of the pump:





Thenks again for your great help!

Matthias

[jamie182]

i have marked the 2 solenoids on the image the one in red is the one you need to put an ignition live to, to make it run.
you don't need any additional earths like in one of your images.

transit ve pump.jpg

you shouldn't really have any problem with the advancing of the pump, if you want to fine tune it just leave the cover off while you make all the adjustments to get it running sweet. the whole process really shouldn't take more than a few hours.