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Running Rough and low on power

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Running Rough and low on power

Postby DownUnder » Sat Dec 04, 2021 12:30 pm

Hi all,

I have just purchased a 1997 2.5 TD Transit. Even though it is a campervan conversion at 2.5+ tons, it seems that it's a bit low on power. Fuel economy is very good according to the previous owner (about 10.5 l/100 km even before they had the turbo fixed). It recently has had the injectors replaced and got a brand new turbo in it. I can see some black smoke when accelerating. In any gear it doesn't want to go over 3,500 rpm, not sure if this is normal? Not sure which turbo is in there and if the EGR valve is doing as it should... It idles at 500 rpm where it vibrates quite a bit, better above idle. All over it feels quite rough and over-diesely. I've heard about the Gen3s that the fuel timing solenoid can break and then it has this characteristic, is there such a thing as a timing solenoid in the 2nd Gen? Any other suggestions?

Thank you

Michael
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Re: Running Rough and low on power

Postby cherniy_chack » Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:26 am

DownUnder,black smoke after replacing the turbocharger may indicate an incorrect vestigate thrust adjustment.
The exhaust gas recirculation valve can be shut off without any hesitation.
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Re: Running Rough and low on power

Postby MinorMatt » Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:08 am

These are never the quickest things in the world....

What does the engine management warning lamp do?
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Re: Running Rough and low on power

Postby DownUnder » Wed Dec 08, 2021 3:27 am

cherniy_chack wrote:DownUnder,black smoke after replacing the turbocharger may indicate an incorrect vestigate thrust adjustment.
The exhaust gas recirculation valve can be shut off without any hesitation.


By vestigate thrust you mean waste gate adjustment/calibration?
Just to be more clear it doesn't blow black smoke all the time just when I go "full" acceleration. Bit hard to tell as I don't have back windows. I was thinking black smoke is not necessarily a bad thing as it suggests it's on the richer side and there is enough fuel. However if combustion is delayed for some reason as in because of EGR that might cause the smoke as well understood.

Is it normal to not rev over 3,500 rpm?
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Re: Running Rough and low on power

Postby DownUnder » Wed Dec 08, 2021 3:29 am

MinorMatt wrote:These are never the quickest things in the world....

What does the engine management warning lamp do?


No warning lamp. what does it look like anyway? when I turn the ignition on I can see oil, battery, brake and something looking like stacked discs but no engine symbol. I hope it's because such symbol doesn't exist not because it has been disabled :idea:
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Re: Running Rough and low on power

Postby DownUnder » Fri Jan 07, 2022 5:47 am

cherniy_chack wrote:DownUnder,black smoke after replacing the turbocharger may indicate an incorrect vestigate thrust adjustment.
The exhaust gas recirculation valve can be shut off without any hesitation.


cherniy_chack, what is the max pressure the turbo should be set to? I have access to a manifold pressure gauge now.
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Re: Running Rough and low on power

Postby Altransit » Fri Jan 07, 2022 10:27 am

DownUnder wrote:
MinorMatt wrote:These are never the quickest things in the world....

What does the engine management warning lamp do?


No warning lamp. what does it look like anyway? when I turn the ignition on I can see oil, battery, brake and something looking like stacked discs but no engine symbol. I hope it's because such symbol doesn't exist not because it has been disabled :idea:

Engine warning lamp should come on with ignition, and go out when started if all is well. If the light hesitates before going out, there are fault codes stored, if it stays on, the van will be in limp home mode, which could be the cause of the limited revs.
If you don't have the lamp, it may have been disabled, thus hiding the fault :idea:
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Re: Running Rough and low on power

Postby MinorMatt » Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:34 am

DownUnder wrote:Is it normal to not rev over 3,500 rpm?


Its a bit low, but some of mine won't go over 4000

You should have a red engine management lamp. If you don't it sounds like someone has removed it.

If all is well it comes on with the ignition and out at engine start.

If there is a minor code, or historic uncleared codes it stays on for 5 seconds

If there is a significant issue then it stays on.

It sounds like someone has removed it due to an issue... so I would suggest getting a modified ELM327 adaptor from your supplier of choice, and downloading Forscan software to do some fault code diagnosis ;)
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Re: Running Rough and low on power

Postby DownUnder » Mon Jan 17, 2022 2:02 am

The engine warning lamp doesn’t come on at all. Looks like it’s been tampered with yeah.

I checked the manifold pressure, it goes to around 60 kPa/9 psi which seems about right to me. It blew quite a bit of smoke and I wound the fuel delivery bolt out a bit to make it leaner and reduce the smoke. It seems to run a lot smoother now only minimal smoke and the power loss is negligible. Still not revving much over 3.5k and is not the quickest but at least it is smooth now.
After all a 2.5 l engine even turbo charged is not big for a van like this (especially being a campervan conversion like mine).
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Re: Running Rough and low on power

Postby MinorMatt » Mon Jan 17, 2022 10:10 am

Fuel delivery bolt?

Aha so its not a "proper" TD engine...

Its either a TD which has had a bosch injection pump fitted, or a NA engine which has had turbo bits bolted on... Do you know which it is?

You should get really be getting 12-14PSI of boost
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Re: Running Rough and low on power

Postby DownUnder » Mon Jan 17, 2022 10:43 pm

The engine is a 4EB and according to the VIN it is a 100 HP “T” engine which can only be the turbo?
It did get new injectors like 2 years ago, maybe then they also fitted a Bosch fuel pump..? And deactivated the engine management along with the engine check lamp. Which might also explain the smoke, I noticed it especially when the turbo is not up to speed yet.
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Re: Running Rough and low on power

Postby MinorMatt » Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:23 pm

Do you have a throttle cable, or is it fly by wire?
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Re: Running Rough and low on power

Postby DownUnder » Tue Jan 18, 2022 9:18 pm

It’s got a throttle cable.
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Re: Running Rough and low on power

Postby Chug » Wed Jan 19, 2022 12:08 am

Has you tried a new fuel filter?
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Re: Running Rough and low on power

Postby MinorMatt » Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:36 am

If its a TD engine, retrofitted with a bosch pump - I recon the timing on the injection pump needs to be advanced...

Take the plastic cambelt cover off, slacken the 4 bolts on the pulley, turn the central nut clockwise (as you look at it) - do the 4 bolts up and see if its any better.

A bit of trial and error to get it right
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