Intermittent fuel supply

[Kedishen]

Hi all

Lucas epic pump in a 94 mk 100TD.

Van started fine for last 10 years. First attempt to start in 6 months and now van intermittently starts but runs poorly.

Have bled air from fuel system up to injectors, new fuel filter and fresh fuel

However, the fuel supply to injectors is intermittent and if it does start it idles rough and if I apply any amount of accelerator, engine dies.

Had a new cam belt 10 years ago and it's only done 5000 miles since then.

I am at a loss at what to do. Any suggestions?

Cheers
Scott

[MinorMatt]

Are you getting enough fuel to the filter? Take the pipe off the back of the filter, put it in a pot and crank it over...

[Kedishen]

Seems like plenty of fuel. Comes out like taking a pee.

Had it running several times for about 30seconds to 1 min. Eventually just dies out.

Previous owner of van (my father) said he had a similar issue many years back and his solution was to just keep cranking it for a very short time, reset key, crank again and eventually it just started and stayed running. I have tried this and although it started after like 20 tries, it ran for about 2 mins, long enough for the engine to return to a normal idle then died again. Sounded perfectly normal whilst it ran.

I have also checked the timing and it is spot on.

I did not notice whether the ECU light stayed on on the dash whilst it was running.

[Kedishen]

Thought id add that I can hear solenoids click when i turn on the ignition, both in the fuse box (for EFI) and on the pump itself.

[Kedishen]

Tested the fuel lifter pump.

It squirts out a good measure every few moments. Not a constant stream. Is that normal behaviour?

[Kedishen]

So, the problem still remains..

No fuel at the end of the injector feed pipes.

[MinorMatt]

Lift pump should squirt out a good dollop of fuel every 2 engine rotations, at an idle of 700rpm thats just over 10 squirts a second - so it should be more or less continuious.

If its not doing this then either the lift pump is faulty or its sucking air/vacuum.

If you run a bit of flexi fuel hose from the outer connector of the lift pump (8mm ID btw) to a temp fuel supply that should help narrow down whether there is a problem with the lift pump or not.

Depending where its been sat - vermin may have attacked the fuel hose (seen it happen myself), or the seals may be letting air past etc

[Kedishen]

There is a cat that likes to sit under my van and I was away for 3 months back to England so nobody to shoo it away. Dunno if there is space to get on top of the fuel tank, but i should check that. Also the lift pump gave some good strong squirts and the pressure continued good up to the inlet of fuel pump, including the return feed. This was just whilst cranking the engine over.

Tomorrow, I shall source some 8mm pipe and a fresh can of fuel and do as you said.

The lift pumps are all the same for mk4 and 5?

[V184]

run a direct fuel feed/return to the injection pump

[Kedishen]

I shall do a direct feed in the morning.

Purchase a lift pump earlier which I will fit tomorrow as well, even if its not failing, might as well considering the price.

I have also read and cleared the codes for the EPIC pump using the paperclip method.

I had every code under the sun, so I am ignoring them all tbh. I definitely removed the plug from back of pump whilst ignition on on more than one occasion.
Has no codes at all now, but cant attempt to start it until morning. Neighbours wouldn't be happy having to listen to that noise again... especially at this time of morning.

One thing I have not been able to find is a full or partial list of engine management codes for a DSA927 epic. Besides those listed by several forum members across many posts, which I will compile in the event I get more engine codes.

Code: Select all

For anybody interested, paperclip method is:

- Find 3pin plug in glove box next to the ECU.
- Turn on ignition
- On the side with the ident, bridge the two connectors with a paperclip for at least 5 seconds, then remove
- Watch the engine management light on dash flash (Begin of read is 12, end of read is 11, all codes are 2 digits)
- If you want to clear the codes, once you see 11, rebridge the pins, then turn off ignition. Remove paperclip.

Repeat the above to check codes are cleared, should only have 12 and 11.



Code: Select all

Ford epic Errors 92-94
12 Start Diagnosis
13 Engine Temperature
Sensor 14 Air Temperature Sensor
15 Gas Pedal
Sensor 16 Pump Temperature Sensor

22 Rotor sensor
23 Rotor control
24 Calibration resistor
25 Current el. EGR valve

31 ECU memory
32 Turbine pressure
sensor 33 EGR sensor
34 EGR control
35 ECU

41 Engine speed sensor
42 Low pump speed
43 Advance control
44 Invalid signal from the advance sensor
45 Control unit relay

54 Emergency stop valve
55 Supply voltage

61 Rotor calibration
62 Lead sensor calibration
63 Motor/pump synchronization

51 Pump installation error suspect pump to engine timing,check pump timing.If pump timing is correct,replace pump..
52 Control unit reference voltage
53 Control unit processor
54 =‘reduced power’

64 ADC of the control unit
65 independent memory of the control unit


[Kedishen]

Codes are:

23 and 61.

Both are related to rotor control.

I presume this means it thinks the timing is out? I have checked the alignment of holes in crank and pump pulley and it is spot on.

Any other insight to these codes?

Also, i have attempted only one small crank today, it fired up and died immediately. What does this suggest?

Im now omw to the shop to get some 8mm ID hose and also some that will fit over the black hose that goes between pump and filter housing to make sure of a good seal.

[Kedishen]

Van is fixed, starts lovely and runs from main tank now no issues.

After connecting a direct feed to the injector pump with clean fuel, injector cleaner and a bit of 2 stroke in it, and another to an empty container, the stuff that came out was varnished and smelt like paint thinner. Once the new fuel hit the pump, the van was trying to start and after releasing air from the injectors one at a time, it fired up and spat out the entire 5 litres in no time.

Then, i cleaned out all the low pressure piping back to the tank using brake cleaner (maybe not the best?) and compressed air and alot of greenish gunk came out.

Fitted the new lifter pump as the old one, even though it worked, was suspect and also full of the same green gunk upon inspection.

Put 60 litres in the main tank after reconnecting everything, fired up the van and works great, not a puff of smoke or anything unusual.

Thank you both for the excellent advice and I learnt a few new things whilst i was at it too. Alot happier now.

Now onto checking the drivetrain oils, and brakes etc ready for the return trip home. Probably gonna need a new offside rear wheel bearing, and maybe some wheel cylinders. Guess I will find out.