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Camshaft replacement - destroyed Woodruff key (?engine in)

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Camshaft replacement - destroyed Woodruff key (?engine in)

Postby nigelwheeler » Sun Oct 23, 2022 8:44 am

[ADMIN Moving this discussion from viewtopic.php?f=4&t=218662#p1781643 so that the topic is more relevant - sorry for duplicating!]

Fooling sudden engine stop likely due to timing belt slippage I have found that the camshaft sprocket is cracked and the Woodruff key and its keyway slot are completely destroyed.

Questions:

- is the keyway definitely part of the camshaft itself, meaning that it will need replacing?
- Can this be done with engine in the vehicle? (Haynes suggests crankcase should be inverted for replacement, but maybe this is only if removing tappets??)
- If removing engine, do I definitely have to re-remove recently refitted head to access camshaft?

Thanks.
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Re: Camshaft replacement - destroyed Woodruff key (?engine i

Postby V184 » Sun Oct 23, 2022 12:04 pm

you can change it in situ either hold the followers up with o rings or remove the sump can you not fit a new key/sprocket?
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Re: Camshaft replacement - destroyed Woodruff key (?engine i

Postby ernie b » Sun Oct 23, 2022 6:57 pm

Can you find the reason for the damage?
Is there any other damage to the valve train?
I would try and find the cause before replacing the sprocket and key as there could easily be more damage further in.
Presumably a 2.5 di
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Re: Camshaft replacement - destroyed Woodruff key (?engine i

Postby Keef » Sun Oct 23, 2022 7:20 pm

Could you have used the cam sprocket bolt to turn the cam anticlockwise and loosened the bolt without realising?
It does seem very strange that all was well until you changed the cambelt.

If the key slot is still ok you just need a new woodruff key and a sprocket I would think.
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Re: Camshaft replacement - destroyed Woodruff key (?engine i

Postby nigelwheeler » Sun Oct 23, 2022 7:54 pm

Hi folks - just to clarify, the key slot / end of the shaft is completely destroyed, so it's not just a case of replacing the key.

I didn't turn the pulley nut, but I have no doubt it was probably something I did when changing the belt and timing up - I probably did try to turn the cam position back ever so slightly and that maybe loosened the nut. Also, when the engine had stopped I tried to start it again before I then tried turning over by hand and realising it had got stuck .

One thing I did notice is that one of the rockers is extremely stiff, so that could have been a contributing factor, and will need changing.

I guess the cam shaft itself could also be broken, although no way to really tell without accessing it directly as I can't turn it over.

Thanks for all the comments, the most encouraging of which is that I should be able to replace the camshaft without removing the engine from the vehicle, by providing access having removet the sump. Any further advice on that procedure would be great.

I'm also looking at the possibility of just swapping the whole engine out and then working on rebuilding current one out of vehicle. There's a 1992 2.5 Di banana available locally, and the other possibility is stripping the cam shaft & sprocket from this for parts rather that finding new, although not sure everything will be compatible due to age, or the wear will be an issue.

I realise I'm making myself sound pretty incompetent here, but I do have some experience with diesel engine internals, and things normally go very well. I kinda wished I never touched the timing belt but thought it was best practice to do it at the same time as the pump. I mainly messed up by not loosening the pump sprocket so the belt could settle properly and then started stupidly fiddling when it was all timed up after cranking round twice and checking. I really don't want to lose the van just because of the bad economics of my own stupid mistake (although I also really I it daily for work so having to probably take on a slightly newer Mk6 in the meantime) so all the help and advice to get me back up and running again myself at minimum expense is hugely appreciated! [Rambling ends]
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Re: Camshaft replacement - destroyed Woodruff key (?engine i

Postby nigelwheeler » Sun Oct 23, 2022 8:21 pm

I should also add that, after timing up correctly, the engine was running perfectly smoothly for a good 5 minutes before terrible noise and stopping, so there was an acute/sudden element of "failure" at some point, whether that was slippage of the belt or something else in the valve train.
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Re: Camshaft replacement - destroyed Woodruff key (?engine i

Postby V184 » Sun Oct 23, 2022 8:23 pm

Keef wrote:Could you have used the cam sprocket bolt to turn the cam anticlockwise and loosened the bolt without realising?
It does seem very strange that all was well until you changed the cambelt.

If the key slot is still ok you just need a new woodruff key and a sprocket I would think.



Probably had a previous repair, leaking seal? and not been tightened correctly ?
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Re: Camshaft replacement - destroyed Woodruff key (?engine i

Postby nigelwheeler » Sun Oct 23, 2022 10:06 pm

ernie b wrote:Presumably a 2.5 di


Sorry, yes, confirm its 2.5 DI banana
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Re: Camshaft replacement - destroyed Woodruff key (?engine i

Postby ernie b » Tue Oct 25, 2022 8:12 pm

Quickest and easiest way back on the road is to chuck in a used motor.
Even if it's a bit of an oil burner it'll keep you going and you can strip your own in comfort and do a proper assessment of the damage.
Handy enough to do with a hard surface and an engine crane
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