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1997 2.5 Diesel Cylinder Head Torque

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1997 2.5 Diesel Cylinder Head Torque

Postby shaun btvan » Thu Apr 29, 2010 2:28 pm

Hello,

I have recently joined and i am looking for confirmation regarding the head torque settings for a 1997 2.5 diesel (non-turbo) transit (believe it is the 70PS version)
According to the Haynes manual (and the TIS disc) it states :
Stage 1 70 Nm
Stage 2 70 Nm
Stage 3 + 1/4 turn

Now, do they mean initially tighten to 70 Nm and then recheck the bolts again at 70 Nm and then tighten by an additional 1/4 turn ?
This is how i have done it and estimate that the above method works out to approximately 130 - 140 Nm (which does seem reasonable for M12 black bolts in a cast iron block)

But it is a bit ambigious and i just want to get it right.
Also, do you need to check / retorque the bolts after it has been run for a short while ?

Thanks in advance,
Shaun Blowman.
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Re: 1997 2.5 Diesel Cylinder Head Torque

Postby nokites » Thu Apr 29, 2010 6:55 pm

Stage 1= 70 Nm
Stage 2= 70 Nm
Stage 3= 90 degs or 1/4 turn, no need to recheck
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Re: 1997 2.5 Diesel Cylinder Head Torque

Postby MinorMatt » Thu Apr 29, 2010 6:57 pm

yes it means do em up once, check the torque is correct then 1/4 turn
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Re: 1997 2.5 Diesel Cylinder Head Torque

Postby Timelourd » Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:47 pm

Alright so, I was also wondering about this same thing.

The manual basically says tighten to 70nm, then essentially just check they're all tight again. Because if I go in and try the torque wrench on them at 70, it will just click straight away, of course. Essentially it's just saying to make absolutely sure they're 70, before giving them a 90 degree turn?

...Or, are they saying "Tighten them up to a total of 140nm (70nm+70nm), then turn them 90 degrees after that?"

Because I tightened them up to 70 and steam/smoke started coming out the damn head gasket when I tried to start it. Definitely not enough compression to start.
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Re: 1997 2.5 Diesel Cylinder Head Torque

Postby V184 » Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:00 pm

105ibft :wink:
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Re: 1997 2.5 Diesel Cylinder Head Torque

Postby MinorMatt » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:58 am

Its 70NM, then check they are all at 70NM, then 90 degrees.
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Re: 1997 2.5 Diesel Cylinder Head Torque

Postby Timelourd » Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:57 am

MinorMatt wrote:Its 70NM, then check they are all at 70NM, then 90 degrees.


Thanks. I also decided from the above post and many others that I'll get new cylinder head retaining bolts because there were no marks but someone had obviously been in before.

Ford dealership wanted 140 for 4x5packs, but I got them from Ajusa (a spanish maker who does excellent Youtube videos on mechanical work, specifically a video with a complete process for replacing the head gasket and bolts, etc.)

Thing is, in the video they use a compound to keep them from getting stuck - a paste of some sort. The Haynes manual says to put the head bolts in dry as a bone or it'll risk cracking the head. Various engineers say that any spec on head bolts will assume a moderate application of motor oil.

Is there any consensus on this?
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Re: 1997 2.5 Diesel Cylinder Head Torque

Postby Chug » Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:37 pm

I always give them a drop of oil before fitting
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Re: 1997 2.5 Diesel Cylinder Head Torque

Postby MinorMatt » Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:33 pm

Haynes lies frequently... but I would make sure threads are clean (eun bolt down to the bottom) then install dry

A very thin smear of oil will be ok. It will provide a higher clamp load than a dry bolt for the torque spec. You definitely should not apply lubricant liberally.
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Re: 1997 2.5 Diesel Cylinder Head Torque

Postby Timelourd » Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:57 pm

Well, got the head back on again, made sure to do the 70nm, 70nm, 90degree (with one of those stupid angle torque gauges, even) and the old boy won't start, still.

The first time, I did the valve clearances wrong. (I didn't realize that "valve fully open" meant the pushrod was all the way up and the rocker arm was all the way down upon the spring, so did it all backwards.) The rhythm of the engine was off, and it wouldn't start.

This time, I took the entire thing apart, got new head bolts, cleaned out the bold holes on the engine block, scrubbed more carbon off the piston heads, and then used the new bolts, in sequence, used the angle torque gauge to add the 90 degree turn, and still, the engine rhythm is slightly off (not as bad as before) and it won't start. Start pilot gets it going for a second before it goes back to trying and failing.

I'm uploading a youtube video of the engine sounds while starting to see if anyone can confirm it's the valve clearances, or if something else is wrong.

The thing about the valve clearances is that the Haynes manual is pretty vague - it says "make sure they're a firm fit, not loose, and not tight." But that's it. I don't really know what the hell that all means.

I should also mention that whomever was in there before put the head on a lathe because I can see faint marks. Head measures up fine, absolutely no warping whatsoever and no cracks. (I'm really wondering if I had to change the head at all or if the smoke wasn't just a loose injector, after all... but here I am anyway.)

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Re: 1997 2.5 Diesel Cylinder Head Torque

Postby Chug » Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:29 pm

If it runs on easy start spray then the engine is fine it just needs fuel, so its a case of bleeding the pump from the 14mm bleed nipple on the side of the pump, then bleeding the injectors and then see if it starts.

For valve clearances the feeler gauge should have a little drag when you pull it through, I do em up till I cannot move the feeler and then loosen until its a slight drag.
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Re: 1997 2.5 Diesel Cylinder Head Torque

Postby Timelourd » Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:36 pm

It only starts up for a second on easy start spray - after a second it stops again.

Does that still sound like simply a fuel priming problem? It's an old Bosch pump, so should be self priming.

Thanks for your help.
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Re: 1997 2.5 Diesel Cylinder Head Torque

Postby Chug » Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:40 pm

If it starts for a few seconds with spray then its fuel related, ie no diesel fuel = no start, spray fuel = start

They are not not self priming and we've had plenty of problems with bleeding the fuel system.
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Re: 1997 2.5 Diesel Cylinder Head Torque

Postby Timelourd » Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:30 pm

You were right. Bled the fuel injection pump, then the lines to the injectors, and it worked! Can't be more happy this forum exists, and people like you come on and follow up with posts.
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Re: 1997 2.5 Diesel Cylinder Head Torque

Postby Chug » Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:30 pm

Glad to hear you got it running again. :D
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