Gross + train weight issues, licences & tachos Info by (ROG)

[(ROG)]

Well I seem to not need Tachos as I don't operate over 33miles from base.

Do I need an O-Licence or not ?


This site says that any trailers lighter than 1025unladen are not to be taken into account??
http://www.findlaw.co.uk/law/small_busi ... /7831.html

There you go - an exemption for O licencing = very happy


The 33 miles (50km) from base exemption also requires other things to go along with that such as the goods being carried
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... europe.pdf
Vehicles or combinations of vehicles with a maximum permissible mass not exceeding 7.5 tonnes that are used:

for carrying materials, equipment or machinery
for the driver’s use in the course of his work.

These vehicles shall be used only within a 50 km
radius of the base of the undertaking and on the
condition that driving the vehicle does not constitute
the driver’s main activity.

[Stroppymonkey]

Yes it's very clear and understandable.

As someone who does his best to conform to regulation requirements and not fall foul of the law I now feel really confident that my business is running legally and I can proceed without being worried about myself or any of my employees getting penalised for doing something wrong.

Not.

[(ROG)]

Yes it's very clear and understandable.

As someone who does his best to conform to regulation requirements and not fall foul of the law I now feel really confident that my business is running legally and I can proceed without being worried about myself or any of my employees getting penalised for doing something wrong.

Not.

O licence = not needed as you found the exemptions

Tacho - will be needed unless you can fully comply with an exemption

Licence - if total of the plated weights adds up to more than 3500 = B+E needed

Cannot get more simple than that

[Stroppymonkey]

You keep saying it's simple when it's really not!

This comes from a Gov.uk site
Licences held from 1 January 1997
If you passed your driving test after 1 January 1997 and have an ordinary category B (car) licence, you can:
drive a vehicle up to 3.5 tonnes or 3,500kg MAM towing a trailer of up to 750kg MAM
tow a trailer over 750kg MAM as long as the combined weight of the trailer and towing vehicle is no more than 3,500kg
For anything heavier you need to take a category B+E driving test.

But you say that's wrong ?


I thought I found that we are exempt from an O-licence based on the 1025kg unladen weight of a trailer. But now I found this on the gov.uk site that says that it applies to any van that weighs more than 1525kg empty. Pretty sure all mwb MHR transits are heavier than this front the factory.

"You need a goods vehicle operator’s licence if your business uses goods vehicles above a certain weight.
You need a licence to carry goods in a lorry, van or other vehicle with either:
a gross plated weight (the maximum weight that the vehicle can have at any one time) of over 3,500 kilograms (kg)
an unladen weight of more than 1,525 kg (where there is no plated weight)
There are 3 different types of licence - what you need depends on the work you do.
You must also make sure that any drivers you use or employ have the correct licence and training. All vehicles that you use should be correctly taxed and kept safe and in good condition at all times "



I REALLY think this is not a clear cut area. I've spent hours trying to find if I'm operating legally or not, I've emailed vavsa and not had any responses. There's a world of conflicting advice out there!

[(ROG)]

This comes from a Gov.uk site
Licences held from 1 January 1997
If you passed your driving test after 1 January 1997 and have an ordinary category B (car) licence, you can:
drive a vehicle up to 3.5 tonnes or 3,500kg MAM towing a trailer of up to 750kg MAM
tow a trailer over 750kg MAM as long as the combined weight of the trailer and towing vehicle is no more than 3,500kg
For anything heavier you need to take a category B+E driving test.

But you say that's wrong ?

IT IS
as long as the combined weight of the trailer and towing vehicle is no more than 3,500kg
SHOULD READ as long as the combined MAM weight of the trailer and towing vehicle is no more than 3,500kg

[(ROG)]

The O licence bit is very clear

[(ROG)]

"You need a goods vehicle operator’s licence if your business uses goods vehicles above a certain weight.
You need a licence to carry goods in a lorry, van or other vehicle with either:
a gross plated weight (the maximum weight that the vehicle can have at any one time) of over 3,500 kilograms (kg)
an unladen weight of more than 1,525 kg (where there is no plated weight)

Your vehicle has a plate so that rukes out the 1525 bit and it is not over 3500 GVW so that rules out that bit = simple

[Stroppymonkey]

Rog.

Thankyou for your responses.

So it's all very clear as you don't believe the governments own website! Sounds about right :-(


So if I want my lad to use a trailer without a B+E I'm going to have to make sure my transit 280 (with its GTW of 3500kg) is never weighing more than 2750 kg and then I need to buy a new trailer with a MAM of 750kg or investigate getting it replated.

Correct?

[Altransit]

So if I want my lad to use a trailer without a B+E I'm going to have to make sure my transit 280 (with its GTW of 3500kg) is never weighing more than 2750 kg and then I need to buy a new trailer with a MAM of 750kg or investigate getting it replated.

Correct?

It's pretty easy with a 280, you'll never need an O licence or a tacho with these vans
The GTW is only 3500kg, meaning anyone with a licence can tow a trailer up to the max trailer MAM of 1550kg with it so long as the GTW of the van (3500kg) is not exceeded
That's the way my head sorts it out

Is that clearer or did I make it worse

[Stroppymonkey]

Well it contradicts what ROG is saying....

[Stroppymonkey]

Let's ignore O-licences and Tachos for a minute.

Either the government is right and Rog is wrong
OR
Rog is right and ALL the Gov.uk sites are wrong

https://www.gov.uk/towing-rules

Says here that you van tow OVER 750kg MAM as long as the MAM of the trailer does not exceed unladed weight of vehicle and GTW does not exceed 3500kg

Rog, can you provide any evidence to the contrary ?

Thanks

[Stroppymonkey]

Using the gov.uk site

https://www.gov.uk/towing-rules/y/car-o ... 9-Jan-2013

[Altransit]

Says here that you van tow OVER 750kg MAM as long as the MAM of the trailer does not exceed unladed weight of vehicle and GTW does not exceed 3500kg

I'm not sure where ROG said that this is wrong

This is the bit that's wrong

tow a trailer over 750kg MAM as long as the combined weight of the trailer and towing vehicle is no more than 3,500kg

Simply put, you cannot tow an empty, or partially loaded trailer which has a MAM greater than the max towing weight of the van, or makes the combination greater than 3500kg
That's regardless of how much weight it's actually carrying

[Stroppymonkey]

Did you read the link I posted?

"Copied from gov.uk site.........A full car licence already lets you tow trailers weighing no more than 750 kg. You can also tow heavier trailers with a car as long as the total weight of vehicle and trailer isn’t more than 3,500 kg. The fully loaded trailer must also not be heavier than the unladen vehicle (this only applies to licences issued before 19 January 2013)"

So this means that the MAM of the trailer must not exceed the unladed weight of the van... Correct?

[Marty.H]

The Lorry we had for oval racing purposes was taco exempt we just had a sign on both n/s and o/s saying not for hire or reward we was advised that is all we had to do and never got any agro.