Transitmania 11 @Santa Pod 17th to 19th May 2019


MK 2/3/4/5) 2.5 Di clutch judder

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Re: 2.5 Di mk3 clutch judder

Postby samson » Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:16 pm

long time ago ,i had no probs till i changed the clutch. disturbed the center bearing , changed that , back to normal
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Re: 2.5 Di mk3 clutch judder

Postby dwright2104 » Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:13 pm

our mk6 17 seater used to judder sometimes when pulling away in 1st gear, problem went away when we had to have the engine stripped, cause the timing chain slipped. duno what fixed it but its away now.
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Re: clutch judder

Postby bestseoservices » Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:12 pm

[quote="martin lewis"]if you have the clutch off take the flywheel off and have your local engineering shop check the run out, i had vicious judder which turned out to be a distorted flywheel , re-machining the working faces fixed the problem.[/quote]


It can be a rusty imput shaft, especially on older or unused vehicles. Clean up and dab a little copper grease on the splines, but not too much.
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Re: 2.5 Di mk3 clutch judder

Postby bestseoservices » Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:21 pm

Had the same problem, the propshaft centre bearing was wrecked, but wasn't cured completely until new clutch fitted.
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Re: MK 2/3/4/5) 2.5 Di clutch judder

Postby Kedishen » Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:34 pm

Judder in reverse and 1st when cold. DIfficult to engage 1st and 2nd when cold.

Went away after new clutch kit + oil seal. Clutch was 21 years old. Inside of box was covered in oil. Also changed spigot bearing.
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Re: MK 2/3/4/5) 2.5 Di clutch judder

Postby unclealec » Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:01 am

The Mk 5 swb 80 I just sold has horrendous clutch judder (new owner fully informed!) - tell you what caused it.
It was fine when I first got it, but on a journey, on the motorway, when changing down from 5th to 4th due to congestion - the clutch cable snapped. Horrific ping/crunch/groan from the area of the clutch; new cable got me on my way again, but the clutch has juddered ever since. I reckon the friction plate has distorted.
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Re: MK 2/3/4/5) 2.5 Di clutch judder

Postby supadik » Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:40 pm

This was a common problem on the Di engines and I think the main reason for the horrid dual mass fly wheel. The problem is down to the torsional coil springs in the centre plate. They are generally too weak for the job and cause juddering when setting off, reversing and sometimes even when changing from 1st to 2nd at low speeds. Even a brand new clutch can do it. You may notice that if it's been parked up for a while that the judder has gone but returns within a very short time.

I've had 3 Mk5 minibuses 2 of them had clutch judder, 2 Di engines convoy minibuses the Turbo Di didn't judder much but the NA Di had terrible judder and would cause the whole bus to bang and clatter as I reversed it up the hill at the school between the parked cars...very embarrassing. My Mk7 is on a solid flywheel and if I slip the clutch too much when reversing I get a little judder too.

It can some times be caused by other issues, rear crank oil seal leaking, worn input shaft or spigot bearing, even warped pressure plate or flywheel but 9 times out of 10 it'll be weak or broken centre plate torsional springs. If it's really bad you could try a new clutch and hope for the best but in reality you generally have to put up with it and learn how to set off with the minimum of judder, as for reversing I had to literately drop the clutch on the Di convoy or it would shake itself to pieces lol.

I'm sorry this post hasn't brought good news but it may help somebody from wasting time and money trying to cure the problem.
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Re: MK 2/3/4/5) 2.5 Di clutch judder

Postby voetsekman » Tue Oct 14, 2014 11:11 pm

I know this is an old post but I fitted a so called (heavy duty) clutch in my mk3 County which resulted in a hurrendoes shudder on take off.
Put up with it for a year untill an engine swap, new (used) identical TDI engine came with a much larger in diameter clutch allready fitted, end of problem.
Be wary when it is referred to as heavy duty, the one you need is the larger diameter jobby.
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Re: MK 2/3/4/5) 2.5 Di clutch judder

Postby Kedishen » Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:04 am

[quote="voetsekman"]I know this is an old post but I fitted a so called (heavy duty) clutch in my mk3 County which resulted in a hurrendoes shudder on take off.
Put up with it for a year untill an engine swap, new (used) identical TDI engine came with a much larger in diameter clutch allready fitted, end of problem.
Be wary when it is referred to as heavy duty, the one you need is the larger diameter jobby.[/quote]

Sounds like the flywheel on old engine was out of balance or warped.
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Re: MK 2/3/4/5) 2.5 Di clutch judder

Postby TransitNut » Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:09 am

As it appears this post still gets the occasional read I'll provide my experience to date having now owned my 17 year old Transit for 11 of those years.

I was convinced there must be a solution to the clutch judder as the vans would not have done it from new and indeed the works Mk4 2.5Di I drove did over 100,000miles fully loaded and massively abused without any "judder". (I was young and not paying for fuel or repairs).

I have now replaced the clutch twice, replaced the spigot bearing, doubled up on the spigot bearing, had a flywheel resurfaced, tried 3 gearboxes, replaced the propshaft bearings, tried another complete propshaft, replaced engine and gearbox mounts, replaced rear crank oil seal (only because I was changing the flywheel and I had a new ford crank seal to hand).

All of the above did result in slight "differences" as to when the judder would occur but nothing has cured it.

However the light bulb has finally illuminated having read the entry by "supadik" as it describes the circumstances under which the judder occurs perfectly, ie no judder having stood for a few days/weeks but returns when a reasonable distance has been traveled.

This has made me realise this is likely to be down to the fitting of aftermarket clutch friction plates rather than Genuine Ford items. I have only used what I consider to be decent quality aftermarket clutches (never re-conditioned ones) but on researching any type of replacement clutch manufacturer there doesn't appear to be any one which receives 100% positive reports.

My old works Mk4 did have a couple of clutches during the 100,000 miles of abuse but i know the company garage only used genuine ford parts.

So it may well be that the torsional coil springs fitted in the genuine ford clutch friction plate are up to the job and aftermarket ones aren't. This is supported by the entry by "voetsekman" which suggests the larger diameter clutch friction plate may have contained torsional springs which were up to the job.

Ironically I have had the exact same problem with a Suzuki V-Strom (Lumpy Torquey 105bhp V-Twin Engine) which uses a clutch from a Suzuki Hyabusa (Smooth, Torquey 180bhp in line four) yet on the V-Twin the torque pulses overpower the torsion springs in the clutch back plate causing what the bike fraternity refer to as "Chudder".
A bit of machining and some stronger torsion springs was the solution.

So the plan now is to see if I can locate a genuine ford replacement clutch and when the mood takes me fit it and see if it is the answer.
(I will also be having a good look at the torsional coil springs and see if there any obvious differences)
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Re: MK 2/3/4/5) 2.5 Di clutch judder

Postby Kedishen » Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:43 pm

You replaced all of those items but never replaced the gearbox mounts?
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Re: MK 2/3/4/5) 2.5 Di clutch judder

Postby voetsekman » Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:28 pm

[quote="Kedishen"][quote="voetsekman"]I know this is an old post but I fitted a so called (heavy duty) clutch in my mk3 County which resulted in a hurrendoes shudder on take off.
Put up with it for a year untill an engine swap, new (used) identical TDI engine came with a much larger in diameter clutch allready fitted, end of problem.
Be wary when it is referred to as heavy duty, the one you need is the larger diameter jobby.[/quote]

Sounds like the flywheel on old engine was out of balance or warped.[/quote]

That would appear so apart from the reason I fitted the new so called "heavy duty" clutch was simply the plate was past its best, no juddering.
It only started juddering when I installed the new aftermarket clutch, couldn't be arsed to drop the box again so simply put up with it until the engine went pop.
If I remember rightly on inspection of the larger clutch two sets of dowel holes were already drilled in the flywheel giving you the option to fit the large or small clutch.
Now on reflection I would go for the large one every time, only wished I'd measured it but i would estimate it was bigger by a good inch and a lot more robust in construction.
Must add my van is used daily and fully loaded also pulling the 4w/d set up so the clutch gets some abuse, 100ps motor on top of all that.
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Re: MK 2/3/4/5) 2.5 Di clutch judder

Postby TransitNut » Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:25 pm

[quote="Kedishen"]You replaced all of those items but never replaced the gearbox mounts?[/quote]

I did indeed replace the gearbox mounts, (they are in the list above) but the ones I removed appeared perfect.

This was after removing and inspecting the original ones, then driving around and up and down a very steep drive, fully laden, forwards and backwards with the gear lever boot and foam removed so i could see how much movement there was in the gearbox/lever. There was very little movement but I convinced myself the rubber in the mount may have gone soft!

To say I've been obsessed with the judder would be an understatement!!!!
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Re: MK 2/3/4/5) 2.5 Di clutch judder

Postby Kedishen » Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:38 pm

So it is. My mistake.
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