Flashing glow plug light and won't start

[Deke]

Hi all. Been a long time, I hope you're all doing well.

My '04 Mk6 is refusing to start and the glow plug light is flashing indicating an engine fault. I'm out in the sticks and it's stuck on my drive in the way of other vehicles so although I don't use it much it's pretty urgent to get it running so I can at least move it around. Getting it to a garage to have the diagnostics read off is not possible.

To give you some background, I've had the van for 6 years or so and it's always been a great starter, even after a few months with no use. A couple of weeks ago it refused to start, but fired up eventually so I didn't really think too much about it. This morning it started first time (as usual), but when I went back to it 20 mins or so later it turns over but refuses to fire. I've tried a number of times over the last 6 hours or so and it's just dead.

Are there some simple (cheap/free) things I can try before we get into OBD territory? If not can anyone recommend a cheapish OBD reader that would be compatible with the Mk6 that I can buy to read the codes? I've seen some on eBay from as little as £20, so if one of these will tell me what I need too know I'll happily get one.

Thanks in advance.

[gt_addict]

If youve got a laptop you can download forscan and buy yourself an ELM327 to usb cable. Plugs in tbe obd port and then hook it up to your laptop and run forscan.

[Deke]

Thanks for the reply, but I don't have a Windows laptop. If there anything that will run on a Mac? Also, ForScan looks to be a US product, does it work on UK vehicles OK?

[knobby1]

Thanks for the reply, but I don't have a Windows laptop. If there anything that will run on a Mac? Also, ForScan looks to be a US product, does it work on UK vehicles OK?

Forscan works on all Mk6 & Mk7 Transits.

In a bind Forscan will work on iphone and Android phones...but it's not free...and You'll need a blutooth capable adapter too which is quite expensive for one which works reasonably well..

The free windoze version is the best and has the highest functionality of all the versions. Very user friendly compared to most and the software is free. The USB "modified ELM-327 is the "go to" for Transits, less than 20 UK sheckles.

Forscan:

https://forscan.org/download.html

USB version of the ELM-327..:

https://tunnelrat-electronics.fwscart.c ... 45457.aspx

Bluetooth OBD-Link MX..::

https://www.obdlink.com/products/obdlin ... ef=forscan

Lord Knobrot

[Deke]

Thanks again for your input chaps. I managed to blag the use of a Windows laptop from work and have read my fault codes off. There are a few:

P1665, P0216, P1664, all seem to be injector pump related, but according to this thread https://fordtransit.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=124271 the codes may not be relevant to my van (2004 2lt 85/280).

I also have P1631, B2550 and B1318, but I'm not sure if these would be enough to stop the van running.

Any advice would be most welcome., thanks.

[knobby1]

Thanks again for your input chaps. I managed to blag the use of a Windows laptop from work and have read my fault codes off. There are a few:

P1665, P0216, P1664, all seem to be injector pump related, but according to this thread https://fordtransit.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=124271 the codes may not be relevant to my van (2004 2lt 85/280).

I also have P1631, B2550 and B1318, but I'm not sure if these would be enough to stop the van running.

Any advice would be most welcome., thanks.

P1665 & P1664 mean your pump EDC may be dead. P1631 is a low or poor battery.

Lord Knobrot

[Deke]

Thanks, Knobby1.

I started another thread here viewtopic.php?f=5&t=206815&p=1729228#p1729228 asking about how to remove the plug, but should have continued this one really. Apologies to the mods for the disjointed threads, I'll keep follow-ups on this one from now on.

So, update is I took the starter out (much easier than I was expecting) and located the fuel pump, and the loom that supplies the EDC. The heat-resistant covering is pretty messy and there's silver gaffa tape around it, so it looks like someone's been there before with a similar problem. There's lots of oil over everything especially the fuel pump so I'm thinking it may have a leak, however, it's pretty black so could just as easy be engine oil.*

Problem I have now is I can't shift the plug from the EDC. I'm quite happy to lay under the van and remake any broken cables, but without being able to get the plug off I can't run the continuity tests laid out by Andy in this thread viewtopic.php?f=18&t=124587. Is there a clip on there somewhere I have to remove? Or is there some knack to getting this plug off that I don't know about?

One other development; once I'd been playing around with the plug and wiggling the loom I thought I'd run the Forscan diagnostic again to see if anything had changed. I cleared the error list and rescanned it and now I only get P1665 (twice) - all the other faults are gone (I'd already charged the battery up during the week, so I was expecting P1631 to be gone anyway).

P1665 seems to be a comms error between the FJP (fuel pump) and the PCM, so I'm hoping this is just a chafed wire in the loom, would that make sense?

Once again, thanks for your continued help.

*If the oil has ingressed into the plug/socket I suspect this may also be the reason for the comms error.

[Deke]

Well now, it seems I have made some progress.

Finally got the plug off the EDC, there's a little sliding lock on the bottom of the body plug that releases it. Cut back all the heat-resistant shielding and silver tape (not gaffa after all, I think it's more like the heat-resistant tape heating engineers use). Anyhoo, no chafing or wire damage visible, although where the cables enter the plug does look a little suspect. Liberal spray of contact cleaner in the plug and socket to de-grease it and reassembled. Did the Forscan again and no different, still showing P1665.

So then I followed APH/Andy's advice on the thread I linked to above and found continuity between all relevant pins within the two plugs. By this stage I was starting to lose hope and getting more resigned to the fact that at least the EDC may be dead, maybe the whole pump. Just as a final check I tested for shorts between the pins in the EDC plug and there is one! Pins 3 & 6 are shorted, which means pin 3 is shorting to earth. As Andy points out, no shorts should exist, and as this fault is showing with the pump and EDC disconnected I'm encouraged to hope the pump and/or EDC are not faulty.

So, I need to find where that short is and rectify it, and I'll start by trying to clean up the cable entry into the plug as it doesn't look too great. Failing that I'm at a bit of a loss really. Anyone know what Pin 3 is doing or where I can find a schematic for my van?

[Deke]

Well, one step forward and two back. I decided to put it all back together as I'm not going to be able to work on it until likely next weekend. Just out of interest I turned the key to see if clearing those other faults had made a difference and...nothing.

No turnover, not even a solenoid click. All dash lights come up, but nada from the starter.



Forscan still reporting P1665 only.

[v8dave]

Have you checked continuity in the wires with a meter or by using a lightbulb ?

If you have used a meter can I suggest you sort out a brake light bulb and check wires by running power along them to light the bulb.

Pins on the fuel pump
1 ) canbus negative
2 ) canbus positive
3 ) canbus ground
these all go to the pcm on the bulkhead.
4 and 8 also go here but their purpose is no marked, they probably are the K-line coms

6 ) chassis ground
7 ) power from the pump relay

5 and 9 are not used.

[Deke]

Continuity was checked using a meter. The meter has an audible buzz when continuity is established so is pretty reliable.

[v8dave]

Modern digital meters put virtually no power through the wire to test for continuity.

As soon as you start dealing with modern digital eletronics with high frequency signals apparently minor impedences can become significant.

The other problem is that damaged wires with corrosion breaks in them will appear ok at low power but as soon as you try to put any current through them, like powering a brake light bulb, they don't work.

Modern thin insulation on wires only has to have a tiny pinhole in it for localised corrosion to begin, and as the wires are sized to be just big enough the corrosion might not result in any visual indication it is there.

The fuel pump wants to draw several amps through the relay to pin 7 and then back out to ground through pin 6.

I've not reread the old threads to check but I think if you power the pump and earth it without the canbus connections the engine should start and idle if the pump is mechanically good and edc is good.

[Deke]

Thanks Dave, I appreciate the help.

It's snowing here now and I've packed up for the day and I doubt I'll get time to look back at this until next weekend. In the meantime, do you have any idea why it won't even turn over now? Things I've done to the van in trying to find the fault are:

Disconnected battery (since refitted).
Removed starter motor (since refitted).
Disconnected both EDC plug and PCM plug to test for continuity, then refitted. Also, removed & refitted pump relay (K4) during this process.
Disconnected EGR feeder pipe to gain better access, refitted.
Did Forscan OBD check a few times, clearing the faults as I went.

I can't see that anything I've done here could stop the engine turning over other than maybe I've damaged the starter motor in the removal & refit process. The little 10mm connector on the solenoid does seem to turn without stopping now so that could be boogered. When I get a chance I'll check the power to the starter to make sure power is getting through. If so I guess the solenoid has had it.

BTW, Forscan still only reporting P1665, so I'm assuming the PCM and EDC plugs went back on OK.

[Deke]

I've not reread the old threads to check but I think if you power the pump and earth it without the canbus connections the engine should start and idle if the pump is mechanically good and edc is good.

So to clarify, if I unplug the EDC plug, put a healthy 12v on pin 7 on the EDC socket and ground pin 6 to earth it should at least start? Did I interpret that correctly?

Starter motor problems aside, of course...

[v8dave]

I've not reread the old threads to check but I think if you power the pump and earth it without the canbus connections the engine should start and idle if the pump is mechanically good and edc is good.

So to clarify, if I unplug the EDC plug, put a healthy 12v on pin 7 on the EDC socket and ground pin 6 to earth it should at least start? Did I interpret that correctly?

Starter motor problems aside, of course...

Check the previous threads you have read.

I found many years ago a very good diagnostic process on and american deisel specialists website specifically for the vp44 pump but the same process works fopr the vp30. I'll post the link if I can find it again.
I think that site stated that if the pump has power and is working the engine will idle.

I think this is a copy of the info from that website https://silo.tips/download/how-to-diagn ... tem-issues