2007 TDCI 2.2 Non Starting

[Peteb71]

HI all new to the forum.
Please could i ask your help with my Transit 2007 2.2 TDCI

Background - The van recently started getting difficult to start either when cold or hot. It eventually stopped completely and had to get the RAC out who sprayed easy start and it fired up start away. He said it would be best to change the fuel filter but also the head due to a number of them deteriorating over time.

NO DTC's or engine management lights on.

What has been done - Ive changed the filter and head which was a genuine ford part. I used a hand primer bulb to fill the new filter up and tried to start it. It wouldn't start so used easy start and it fired up straight away and ran for a while but wouldn't get rid of all the air. Tried turning engine off and on again but no fire. So i bought a genuine Ford pipe which goes from the filter to the pump as i could see little bubbles accumulating from the filter end. Tired to start but no good, again used easy start and fired up straight away and removed most of the trapped air.

Ive also checked (From reading forum posts) fuses and relays which when tested appear to be working. Also changed the ignition switch. On doing this the engine fired up and I thought id fixed the problem but was short lived as when i tried turning it off and on again it didn't start.

I would appreciate your help with understanding the following

would the engine start with a shot of easy start if any of the electrics were faulty i.e ignition switch, sensors etc? (No DTC's)
What is the yellow tap on bottom of filter for? is it just for water or can i use it to disperse any build up of air when priming? mine doesn't have any cables attached to them.

is there a way to remove any air build up in the fuel pump (not even sure it has any but just asking). I've read that TDCI do not respond well to cracking off the injector unions.

It appears to me(and RAC) that the pump doesn't have enough fuel pressure on cranking over but seems ok when eventually running on idle or under load?

Sorry for the long winded explanation but its doing my head in

Any help would be much appreciated

Cheers

[Peteb71]

Update

Just taken off the new filter and it was maybe a quarter full so topped it up to the brim and put it back on. I put my primer tool with a non return valve between the fuel inlet pipe from tank and the filter head to assist with pulling more fuel but also to check no bair was coming from the tank which it wasn't. Tried to start it but no luck. so used Easy Start and fired up straight away. whilst running it had a far bit of air in the filter to pump pipe so took it for a drive and cleared all the air from the system. got home turned it off and tried restarting but AGAIN didn't fire up!

Now thinking its not due to air in the system thus not providing enough pressure in the pump? might be wrong

Ive plugged in my Autel Maxi Pro and ran live data. No DTC's recorded and can't see any issues except on the EGR Valve Stepping value which is reading

Value 27.64 Range (0.00-0.05) Unit K

Would this be an issue with starting the engine without the help of Easy Start?

Cheers

[TheCake]

Not sure how good those autels are with fords but the go to on here is forscan and a modified elm-327 reader as some other readers may not pick up all the codes.
As for the air in system it could be coming from the fuel return pipe most likely the little green o-rings on top of the injectors.
What was fuel rail pressure reading on crank and running?

[Peteb71]

Not sure how good those autels are with fords but the go to on here is forscan and a modified elm-327 reader as some other readers may not pick up all the codes.
As for the air in system it could be coming from the fuel return pipe most likely the little green o-rings on top of the injectors.
What was fuel rail pressure reading on crank and running?

Hi
Thanks for your input

Ive managed to get some live data tonight and reads as follows

Cranking (no Start)

Fuel Rail Pressure (KPA) 37.56
Fuel Rail Pressure (V) 1.6
Fuel Rail Pressure Desired (KPA) 37.43

Engine running (Easy Start)

Fuel Rail Pressure (KPA) peaked to 39.00 when fired then rested Between 25.00 -27.00 on idle
Fuel Rail Pressure (V) 1.6
Fuel Rail Pressure Desired (KPA) 23

Thanks

[TheCake]

Try starting when fed from a can bypassing the filter if that works you've likely got a bad seal somewhere around the filter.
Check the hoses for any wear/cracks/holes
Genuine ford filter? Original filter housing?
Rail pressure looks good.

[Peteb71]

Try starting when fed from a can bypassing the filter if that works you've likely got a bad seal somewhere around the filter.
Check the hoses for any wear/cracks/holes
Genuine ford filter? Original filter housing?
Rail pressure looks good.

Ive recently changed the Filter housing and filter together with the Filter to pump opaque pipe and the return black return pipe which were all Genuine Ford. The other two pipes (return to tank and tank to filter) are still original but don't seem to have any noticeable
air bubbles entering from tank supply or exiting the filter To Pump. Ive now disconnected the priming hand pump tool after no bubbles were present when running.

If the rail pressure looks good on cranking wouldn't that indicate a good air free supply? (apologies if this is a stupid question i just trying to understand the workings)

[knobby1]

Try starting when fed from a can bypassing the filter if that works you've likely got a bad seal somewhere around the filter.
Check the hoses for any wear/cracks/holes
Genuine ford filter? Original filter housing?
Rail pressure looks good.

Ive recently changed the Filter housing and filter together with the Filter to pump opaque pipe and the return black return pipe which were all Genuine Ford. The other two pipes (return to tank and tank to filter) are still original but don't seem to have any noticeable
air bubbles entering from tank supply or exiting the filter To Pump. Ive now disconnected the priming hand pump tool after no bubbles were present when running.

If the rail pressure looks good on cranking wouldn't that indicate a good air free supply? (apologies if this is a stupid question i just trying to understand the workings)

Cranking rail pressure should be ~250+ bar-ish. Idle rail pressure should be 230 +/- 10%. What are you getting when cranking..??

Lord Knobrot

[Peteb71]

Hi

This is what my Autel maxi pro reads on live data

size=150]Cranking (no Start)[/size]

Fuel Rail Pressure (KPA) 37.56
Fuel Rail Pressure (V) 1.6
Fuel Rail Pressure Desired (KPA) 37.43

Engine running (Easy Start)

Fuel Rail Pressure (KPA) peaked to 39.00 when fired then rested Between 25.00 -27.00 on idle
Fuel Rail Pressure (V) 1.6
Fuel Rail Pressure Desired (KPA) 23

Thanks[/quote]

[tranmx2]

Comparison 2012 2.2 DRRB 100 HP RWD - Forscan readings.

19 03 22 Forscan.
Cold start.
Pre cranking.
FRP 280 kpa. 2.8 bar.
DPF 0.1 kpa.
MAP 100 kpa.

Crank no start.
FRP 40660 kpa. 406 bar.
DPF 0.0 kpa.
MAP 100 kpa.

Crank start.
FRP 25720 kpa. 257 bar.
DPF 1.1 kpa.
MAP 99.3 kpa.

[knobby1]

Comparison 2012 2.2 DRRB 100 HP RWD - Forscan readings.

19 03 22 Forscan.
Cold start.
Pre cranking.
FRP 280 kpa. 2.8 bar.
DPF 0.1 kpa.
MAP 100 kpa.

Crank no start.
FRP 40660 kpa. 406 bar.
DPF 0.0 kpa.
MAP 100 kpa.

Crank start.
FRP 25720 kpa. 257 bar.
DPF 1.1 kpa.
MAP 99.3 kpa.

Totally different fuel system to the Peteb71's above. Yours is Seimens, his is Denso.

Lord Knobrot

[Peteb71]

Thanks Transmx2 for the comparison values.

Would you agree that they are similar with my readings? So would suggest that the pressure is there when needed.
What I just can get my head around is why if I squirt a little Easy start in the intake it starts and runs fine all day until I turn it off and won’t start again.

The other nagging thing is when I changed the ign switch it started straight up but after turinng it off and on again it just cranked? Is there something obvious which I haven’t considered.

[Peteb71]

Another update

Purchased Forscan as recommended and read some live data

Do these look ok?

Should there be rail pressure before being cranked over as mine is reading 0.0kpa?[color=#8000FF][/color]

Pre Cranked Values

MAP 99.8 kPa Manifold absolute pressure sensor
MAP_V 1.62 V Manifold absolute pressure sensor
MAP 100.0 kPa Manifold absolute pressure sensor
FRP 0.0 kPa Fuel Rail Pressure
FRP_DSD 0.0 kPa Fuel Rail Pressure Desired
FRP_V 1.00 V Fuel Rail Pressure
FRT 28 °C Fuel Rail Temperature
FRT_V 1.79 V Fuel Rail Temperature Sensor Voltage
MAF 4.16 g/s Mass Air Flow
MAF_DMD 76.00 g/s Mass Air Flow Demanded

Cranked NOT starting

MAP 99.5 kPa Manifold absolute pressure sensor
MAP_V 1.62 V Manifold absolute pressure sensor
MAP 98.0 kPa Manifold absolute pressure sensor
FRP 43610.0 kPa Fuel Rail Pressure
FRP_DSD 37250.0 kPa Fuel Rail Pressure Desired
FRP_V 1.68 V Fuel Rail Pressure
FRT 28 °C Fuel Rail Temperature
FRT_V 1.79 V Fuel Rail Temperature Sensor Voltage
MAF 6.87 g/s Mass Air Flow
MAF_DMD 36.00 g/s Mass Air Flow Demanded

Cranked and Started with EASY START

MAP 99.5 kPa Manifold absolute pressure sensor
MAP_V 1.60 V Manifold absolute pressure sensor
MAP 99.0 kPa Manifold absolute pressure sensor
FRP 24660.0 kPa Fuel Rail Pressure
FRP_DSD 23023.4 kPa Fuel Rail Pressure Desired
FRP_V 1.36 V Fuel Rail Pressure
FRT 30 °C Fuel Rail Temperature
FRT_V 1.65 V Fuel Rail Temperature Sensor Voltage
MAF 9.93 g/s Mass Air Flow
MAF_DMD 34.00 g/s Mass Air Flow Demanded

[knobby1]

Another update

Purchased Forscan as recommended and read some live data

Do these look ok?

Should there be rail pressure before being cranked over as mine is reading 0.0kpa?[color=#8000FF][/color]

No, you don't have a lift pump in the tank and rail pressure is generated by the fuel pump itself during cranking/running. Still looks like your EGR is stuck open due to the strange MAF & MAP readings.

Lord Knobrot

[Peteb71]

Thanks for the input. Much appreciated

I’ll take the egr off and inspect it. Do you think this could then be the cause of why it will only start with easy start?
Strange if is stuck open that it hasn’t brought on the eml or a DTC

Cheers

[knobby1]

Thanks for the input. Much appreciated

I’ll take the egr off and inspect it. Do you think this could then be the cause of why it will only start with easy start?
Strange if is stuck open that it hasn’t brought on the eml or a DTC

Cheers

EGR valve may not necessarily the cause of hard starting but they do cause issues. They can also stick intermittently which can fool the fault detecting system. You can blank it off as a diagnostic exercise.

Only starting with easy start usually points to a fuel problem, air ingress into the system is the most common.

Lord Knobrot