*NOW BOOKED FOR 2024* Transitmania 15 @ Santa Pod 19th to 21st July 2024 *ALL DETAILS HERE*


ABS/Brake warning light and speedo to zero

Transit Mk6 & Mk7 Forum. All Transits 2000 - 2013

ABS/Brake warning light and speedo to zero

Postby scsmedia » Sat Mar 11, 2023 1:04 pm

Hi,

starting this a a new topic to avoid conflating previous issues that are unrelated.
Above a (slow) certain speed, the ABS warning light comes on (and another red one bottom left of instrument cluster) and the speedo drops to zero/bounces around. The speedo doesn't stay on zero and sometimes reads something useful and the lights are sometimes on or off even above that certain speed. This always happens when travelling above that speed (probably around 10 to 15 mph). So it ISN'T intermittent in so far as the problem is always there but the lights/speedo working properly IS intermittent when travelling above the certain speed.

I measured the items below and what I see from that is that all wheel sensors are behaving the same AND the ABS unit is always fed with power. From this, I think I can rule out reluctor rings and ABS sensors themselves. I think what I need to understand is how the sensors are linked together and power/ground is fed to them. If they are only connected to the ABS unit then maybe it has a problem, otherwise some wiring fault somewhere in that circuit.

Does anyone have any insight on how they are hooked together. I haven't been able to find a wiring diagram I understand for this. The earths have been cleaned up and secured on the inner wing and under the driver seat. The fuses have been changed.

Screenshot 2023-03-11 120259.png


Possibly related are connection errors between modules and relay errors as below which I am also getting.

===PCM DTC P062B:16-14===
Code: P062B - Internal Control Module Fuel Injector Control Performance

Additional Fault Symptom:
- Circuit Voltage Below Threshold

Status:
- DTC Maturing - Intermittent at Time of Request
- Malfunction Indicator Lamp is Off for this DTC

Module: Powertrain Control Module
Diagnostic Trouble Code details
Clear fault codes
Drive the vehicle on the road.
Rerun the diagnostic.
Only replace the module if the fault still exists.

Freeze Frame #1:
-EVENT_TIME: 123298 s - Event time
-TOTAL_DISTANCE: 258639 km - Total Distance
===END PCM DTC P062B:16-14===

===PCM DTC P068A:00-28===
Code: P068A - ECM/PCM Power Relay De-Energized - Too Early

Status:
- Previously Set DTC - Not Present at Time of Request
- Malfunction Indicator Lamp is Off for this DTC

Module: Powertrain Control Module
Diagnostic Trouble Code details
This DTC may be caused by :
An intermittent fault.
Damaged or faulty relay
Damaged or contaminated connector
Check the wiring and the appropriate fuse.
There could be a intermittent wiring fault. Check the wiring harness.

Freeze Frame #1:
-EVENT_TIME: 123309 s - Event time
-TOTAL_DISTANCE: 258643 km - Total Distance
===END PCM DTC P068A:00-28===

===PCM DTC U0121:00-28===
Code: U0121 - Lost Communication With Anti-Lock Brake System (ABS) Control Module 'A'

Status:
- Previously Set DTC - Not Present at Time of Request
- Malfunction Indicator Lamp is Off for this DTC

Module: Powertrain Control Module

Freeze Frame #1:
-EVENT_TIME: 123590 s - Event time
-TOTAL_DISTANCE: 258645 km - Total Distance
-MODULE_VOLTAGE: 14.5 V - Control Module Voltage
===END PCM DTC U0121:00-28===

===ABS DTC None===
Successful DTC reading, no error codes found

Module: Antilock braking system

===END ABS DTC None===

===BCMii DTC B10A2:35-08===
Code: B10A2 - Crash Input

Additional Fault Symptom:
- Signal High Time Greater Than Maximum

Status:
- Previously Set DTC - Not Present at Time of Request
- Malfunction Indicator Lamp is Off for this DTC

Module: Body Control Module

===END BCMii DTC B10A2:35-08===

===BCMii DTC B10A2:38-08===
Code: B10A2 - Crash Input

Additional Fault Symptom:
- Signal Frequency Incorrect

Status:
- Previously Set DTC - Not Present at Time of Request
- Malfunction Indicator Lamp is Off for this DTC

Module: Body Control Module

===END BCMii DTC B10A2:38-08===

===BCMii DTC U0151:00-08===
Code: U0151 - Lost Communication With Restraints Control Module

Status:
- Previously Set DTC - Not Present at Time of Request
- Malfunction Indicator Lamp is Off for this DTC

Module: Body Control Module

===END BCMii DTC U0151:00-08===

===BCMii DTC U0121:00-08===
Code: U0121 - Lost Communication With Anti-Lock Brake System (ABS) Control Module 'A'

Status:
- Previously Set DTC - Not Present at Time of Request
- Malfunction Indicator Lamp is Off for this DTC

Module: Body Control Module

===END BCMii DTC U0121:00-08===

===BCMii DTC U0100:00-08===
Code: U0100 - Lost Communication With ECM/PCM A

Status:
- Previously Set DTC - Not Present at Time of Request
- Malfunction Indicator Lamp is Off for this DTC

Module: Body Control Module

===END BCMii DTC U0100:00-08===

===BCMii DTC B10D7:87-08===
Code: B10D7 - PATS Key

Additional Fault Symptom:
- Missing Message

Status:
- Previously Set DTC - Not Present at Time of Request
- Malfunction Indicator Lamp is Off for this DTC

Module: Body Control Module

===END BCMii DTC B10D7:87-08===

===BCMii DTC B10D7:94-08===
Code: B10D7 - PATS Key

Additional Fault Symptom:
- Unexpected Operation

Status:
- Previously Set DTC - Not Present at Time of Request
- Malfunction Indicator Lamp is Off for this DTC

Module: Body Control Module

===END BCMii DTC B10D7:94-08===

===RCM DTC None===
Successful DTC reading, no error codes found

Module: Restraint Control Module

===END RCM DTC None===

===IPC DTC None===
Successful DTC reading, no error codes found

Module: Instrument Panel Control Module

===END IPC DTC None===
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
2006.5 2.4L RWD 100PS 5-speed 350 LWB Med Roof Crew.
scsmedia
Transit Addict
Transit Addict
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2023 3:50 pm

Re: ABS/Brake warning light and speedo to zero

Postby tranmx2 » Sat Mar 11, 2023 2:42 pm

the speedo drops to zero/bounces around. The vehicle speed sensor is likely on the gearbox. Likely there is a wire to the PCM and one to the consul.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tx9ao36EIiI


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6Yu6yKyTyI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6BBsMDbAsk
Might help.
Go to the Abs manufacturers sight for more info'. Bosch may not be on Transits http://www.albea.ru/214145/2916a.pdf

I'd remove/delete the previously set DTCs - get rid of the clutter.
P062B - https://www.obd-codes.com/p062b Read this: What are some P062B troubleshooting steps?

Read more at: https://www.obd-codes.com/p062b
Copyright OBD-Codes.com

The ABS controls the braking by releasing the brake fluid pressure to a brake. The ESP controls vehicle stability by applying brake fluid pressure to a brake. Hill start assist keeps the brake on for a few seconds whilst the driver changes from foot brake to accelerator pedal. There is also anti stall which seems to be associated with the clutch pedal position. The above 4 functions can have different names.
2012 MK 7 E 5 100-350 3.5 XLWB RWD Duratorq 2.2L CR TC 14 DSL 100/125 PS E5 DPF BCM PCM RCM
Was DRRB 74 KW 100 HP 100 cv. Now CYR5 125 HP. PCM could still be for 100 HP.
There's more letters after a Transit than a military man :lol:
tranmx2
Transit Devotee
Transit Devotee
 
Posts: 983
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:51 am

Re: ABS/Brake warning light and speedo to zero

Postby scsmedia » Sat Mar 11, 2023 5:57 pm

Thanks.

I believe the speedo runs from the ABS rather than the gearbox but happy to be corrected. That would be why the ABS warning light and speedo to zero occur at the same time which coincides with the wheel speed and vehicle speed measurements falling to zero. I would have to go for a longer run to see if the losses of signal are always a similar length of time or if that just coincides with the short route I take round the block.

This says short circuit or something to me but I have checked all the plugs and harnesses and earth points I can find several times, replaced all the fuses, swapped relays around or an electronics problem such as a failing module like ABS or BCM.

What the graph tells me it isn't a problem with a sensor or ring as it can happily measure things fine until it reaches a certain speed. I've just run out of places to look without knowing exactly how it works and ABS kicks in above a certain speed. I was hoping there was a common area of wiring or plug to look at for this phenomenon.
2006.5 2.4L RWD 100PS 5-speed 350 LWB Med Roof Crew.
scsmedia
Transit Addict
Transit Addict
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2023 3:50 pm

Re: ABS/Brake warning light and speedo to zero

Postby scsmedia » Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:00 pm

There's no point in deleting the codes, they only come back. To me, these could all be relevant to diagnosing what is going wrong here. It's either that lot (and a few more) or just the injector learning hasn't been done, which I doubt has anything to do with an ABS/speedo problem.
2006.5 2.4L RWD 100PS 5-speed 350 LWB Med Roof Crew.
scsmedia
Transit Addict
Transit Addict
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2023 3:50 pm

Re: ABS/Brake warning light and speedo to zero

Postby tranmx2 » Sat Mar 11, 2023 9:34 pm

https://cardiagn.com/ford/transit/

https://cardiagn.com/ford-transit-2006- ... k-control/
Could use snip to copy paste images of the info.

It is a bit slow need to tick a box re if you are human. You need to know exactly what you need. Easy to read something and miss some of the info'.

There is a reference in the forum to a web page where you pay so much for x time = copy and paste as much as can.
2012 MK 7 E 5 100-350 3.5 XLWB RWD Duratorq 2.2L CR TC 14 DSL 100/125 PS E5 DPF BCM PCM RCM
Was DRRB 74 KW 100 HP 100 cv. Now CYR5 125 HP. PCM could still be for 100 HP.
There's more letters after a Transit than a military man :lol:
tranmx2
Transit Devotee
Transit Devotee
 
Posts: 983
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:51 am

Re: ABS/Brake warning light and speedo to zero

Postby scsmedia » Mon Mar 13, 2023 9:59 am

Thanks tranmx2 - really useful info. Now for some boring fiddling with mucky hard to reach wires.
2006.5 2.4L RWD 100PS 5-speed 350 LWB Med Roof Crew.
scsmedia
Transit Addict
Transit Addict
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2023 3:50 pm

Re: ABS/Brake warning light and speedo to zero

Postby scsmedia » Thu Mar 30, 2023 8:01 pm

Might be early days since I have only been two miles so far in it - but ABS/Speedo issue has gone away.

All I have done is to completely remove the engine compartment fusebox and wiring as well as the ECU and then put it all back together. Nothing was frayed or dirty or needed repair.
I also put some fuses in holes which I don't even think have terminals in for things I don't think I have (F35, F36 and F24)

So I think the cause of the ABS/Speedo issue was loose plug connection or faulty earth under the bonnet. Hope I don't have to come back to this thread to say the problem is back!

Thanks for all the suggestions.
2006.5 2.4L RWD 100PS 5-speed 350 LWB Med Roof Crew.
scsmedia
Transit Addict
Transit Addict
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2023 3:50 pm

Re: ABS/Brake warning light and speedo to zero

Postby tranmx2 » Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:04 pm

scsmedia wrote:Thanks.

I believe the speedo runs from the ABS rather than the gearbox but happy to be corrected. That would be why the ABS warning light and speedo to zero occur at the same time which coincides with the wheel speed and vehicle speed measurements falling to zero. I would have to go for a longer run to see if the losses of signal are always a similar length of time or if that just coincides with the short route I take round the block.

This says short circuit or something to me but I have checked all the plugs and harnesses and earth points I can find several times, replaced all the fuses, swapped relays around or an electronics problem such as a failing module like ABS or BCM.

What the graph tells me it isn't a problem with a sensor or ring as it can happily measure things fine until it reaches a certain speed. I've just run out of places to look without knowing exactly how it works and ABS kicks in above a certain speed. I was hoping there was a common area of wiring or plug to look at for this phenomenon.


I believe the speedo runs from the ABS rather than the gearbox but happy to be corrected. If so how is the vehicle speed determined eg one or more wheels spin - one or more wheels stop revolving but skids along.
2012 MK 7 E 5 100-350 3.5 XLWB RWD Duratorq 2.2L CR TC 14 DSL 100/125 PS E5 DPF BCM PCM RCM
Was DRRB 74 KW 100 HP 100 cv. Now CYR5 125 HP. PCM could still be for 100 HP.
There's more letters after a Transit than a military man :lol:
tranmx2
Transit Devotee
Transit Devotee
 
Posts: 983
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:51 am

Re: ABS/Brake warning light and speedo to zero

Postby knobby1 » Thu Mar 30, 2023 10:37 pm

tranmx2 wrote:I believe the speedo runs from the ABS rather than the gearbox but happy to be corrected. If so how is the vehicle speed determined eg one or more wheels spin - one or more wheels stop revolving but skids along.


The speed is determined via an "average" of the ABS system sensor pulses. One of my motorcycles does the same...but it's taken from the rear wheel in this case.

Lord Knobrot
2008 2.4L RWD 170+PS 6-speed 350 LWB High Roof.

When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather, not screaming like the passengers in his car..!
User avatar
knobby1
Transit Extremist
Transit Extremist
 
Posts: 15738
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 1:36 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: ABS/Brake warning light and speedo to zero

Postby scsmedia » Fri Mar 31, 2023 12:12 am

tranmx2 - I think you are right but I don't know how it works/combines. Speed IS calculated by ABS sensors but there is also a gearbox speed sensor (part number 4583104) - I'm guessing there is some kind of combination of these outputs and I have no idea how these are fed to the speedo. This might explain how taking the whole lot apart and putting it back together solved my problem. I have checked, cleaned, unplugged many connectors under the bonnet, especially around the ABS area, but maybe only by taking the entire fusebox out can I guarantee I have checked every single related connector - I expect cabling down to the gearbox is some of this.

I haven't spent a fortune getting back to where I was a few weeks ago (new ignition switch and fuel filter probably did nothing to help me but a new starter motor was definitely needed). At least I haven't bought any new BCM, PCM, ABS modules and messed with coding. Unfortunately in trying to fix this, I have messed up the injection system and now can't do a pilot read (error 88 or something) - but next step will be to change at least a couple of very leaky injectors which hopefully would solve that. A good tutorial on changing injectors on RWD would be useful - I expect there will be something somewhere on this.
2006.5 2.4L RWD 100PS 5-speed 350 LWB Med Roof Crew.
scsmedia
Transit Addict
Transit Addict
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2023 3:50 pm

Re: ABS/Brake warning light and speedo to zero

Postby tranmx2 » Fri Mar 31, 2023 12:50 am

Just found this https://www.2carpros.com/questions/spee ... abs-lights which gives an idea of what can go on.
There's lots of info' re' speedo malfunction and abs light on.

Reminds me of when I got XP MS reading info' on the net which seemed to start in the middle and end there. Never found the whole info'. Terminology was another hold up for me.
In my late 50s I went to night school - the teachers talked and talked as if I should know what they were talking about. One teacher who was an ex engineer taught maths - he alone had the ability to put over the ideas and give examples which I could get to grips with - the book that accompanied the course was unfathomable to me.
Info' on the internet can be misleading. The above link info' seems to wander into oblivion near the end it didn't really give an answer to the problem - except the problem could be linked to abs, esp etc.
I cannot be sure of the info' I have found re' the van I have.

I suppose if one was to look at the gearbox and find a sensor there it is likely to be the speed sensor/sender. If there isn't one then the speedometer reading is from the abs which has esp linked to it.
So could be abs, esp, anti stall, hill assist and whatever else - seems like the electronic boffins added on and on like a teenager with a mecano set.

I do know that a Transit type of a year period can be different from other Transits of type and year.
Mine seems to be very basic but has more electronic things on it than a vehicle from 10 yrs before it was made.

Bottom dollar is DIY you need to know which vehicle you have got - then you need to know the systems that are on it etc, etc.
2012 MK 7 E 5 100-350 3.5 XLWB RWD Duratorq 2.2L CR TC 14 DSL 100/125 PS E5 DPF BCM PCM RCM
Was DRRB 74 KW 100 HP 100 cv. Now CYR5 125 HP. PCM could still be for 100 HP.
There's more letters after a Transit than a military man :lol:
tranmx2
Transit Devotee
Transit Devotee
 
Posts: 983
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:51 am

Re: ABS/Brake warning light and speedo to zero

Postby knobby1 » Fri Mar 31, 2023 6:26 am

scsmedia wrote:tranmx2 - I think you are right but I don't know how it works/combines. Speed IS calculated by ABS sensors but there is also a gearbox speed sensor (part number 4583104) -


Mk7 does not have the gearbox speedo sensor. This is only for vehicles without ABS...There are no Mk7's which dont' have ABS.

Lord Knobrot
2008 2.4L RWD 170+PS 6-speed 350 LWB High Roof.

When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather, not screaming like the passengers in his car..!
User avatar
knobby1
Transit Extremist
Transit Extremist
 
Posts: 15738
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 1:36 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia


Return to Mk6 & Mk7 - Third Generation Transits



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

This site contains affiliate links for which we may be compensated.