Water pump failed Transit 2.4 Tdci 140 2008

[knobby1]

As the flow is really low when thermostat is open, that should erase clogged radiator no?

The limit of the radiator would be a possibility if:
1) the problem was there at the beginning ==> but that was not the case. It happen there is 6/7 year, i never had any overheating problem on this road before.
2) the problem disappear when you drive lower on the hill ==> or in my case, it's the opposite, if i drive in low speed the problem is most important on this hill.
Normally i drive this road at 110km/h in 6. You are not at full speed, and i could pass this road with no problem. Now i could only pass it if temp is < to 25° and after 25° i will be really near overheating all the time. (CHT near 120)
If i low speed to 80km/h in 5 or 90 to be higher in RPM and to have less load, i will overheat more!!! The only way to pass when it's more then 28° is... To be full throttle on the accelerator expecting that it will pass... It's the only way i could pass this long hill now.

I think that when there is less fuel, it heat more on the cylinder, that's why we think more of a water pump that does not flow a lot, if that was a radiator partially clogged, i should pass when i slow down, or i should have problem in other time (like in slow-down traffic etc) but that's never the case.

I still think your CHT sensor may be an issue, I have a 2.4 140 remapped to 170ps and it's never been an issue in the 40C+ temps I see here in Australia in the summer, the temp guage has never been higher than 90C under any circumstances. I replaced my water pump several years ago due to a leaking pump shaft seal but it never overheated.

Lord Knobrot

[Jim Archer]

As above, mine gets driven 1200miles across Europe a couple of times a year, and the only time the gauge has ever deviated from the '90°' was when a hose wore through.

I agree with His Lordship on the CHT sensor, but the hot lower hose thing makes me wonder if it is a rad issue.

Jim

[Burn2]

@knobby1
Just to add information.
Our transit is a camping car, so something with more then 3m tall and should be near the 3500kg ( if not more ) so if you compare with a van it could be totalky different.

The problem with cht sensor is twice:
The first time when we do not see the gauje mouving, they where real overheating with boil coolant. ( No leak but boilling coolant.)
So that was a real overheat for sure.
Now we always take care in the same condition, with a real time look on odb temp, so i always succeed to be limit and not overheat but we are always near 120° chr and calculate ect near 110/115° if it's more then 28°.

But it's a possibility that the first time was real with a locked thermostat ( that has been replaced) and cht dye with to much hot and that's now it is wrong.


The over point is that when i read cht temp all the time it's progressive, the temp never jump.
And in normal condition cht temp is near 90° except when there is hill that are long, it could grow to 100°.

This hightway is particular it s a really long hill it s something like 20km of hill between 4 and 6% all the time.

From what i have read of a dying cht sensor i should have jump in temp or never normal temp and that's not my case.
I will try to see if it could be changed to be sure that's it's not the problem but i really doupt that it will be the solution as when less temp or normal road i never add problem.
It seems more to be a lack of freezing from coolant for what i see in test.





@jim what do you mean?
I did not touch the lower hole when limit overheat but in normal condition the lower hole is at 40/50° maximum.
I could take it into my hand with no problem. So it make cold water.

[Jim Archer]

My lower hose is noticably cold rather than hand hot within minutes of idling down after a long run.

Jim

[Burn2]

Same here.
We made a test by stopping the viscocoupler fan.
Upper hole goes to 90° ( thermostat open )
Then temp in radiator slowly grow to 70/80° same for lower hole until viscocoupler fan could not be stop and start to turn.

After less then one minute temp in lower hole is down to something like 40° ( external outside temp was 28° ). We did not wait much more it would have cooler more perhaps.
Temperature is mesured with a laser thermometer.

[Jim Archer]

Give it, say, 10mins, it should 'feel' cold. If not, try back flushing the rad.

As His Lordship says, it's not going to hurt if you fit a new CHT sender - well, hurt the engine, you on the other hand will expend much effort and naughty language ...

As suggested, inspect the pump as well.

Jim

[Burn2]

Hello.
Thank's.
I will do the test again. But "cold" is subjectif, when you have got 28° outside, it could not be cold.
And that depend when the thermostat open too.
The goal to the test we made was to see if viscofan work, and that's the case, and see if we see coolant through radiator, and it's the case, but the time to eat the radiator (with fan off) and to heat the lower hole seems to bit "long", i would have think that it would become hot much faster (something like less then 10s to be hot and not more then 1 minutes even if it's in idle and that thermostat should have been partially opened).

I will ask to my mechanics to change the CHT, and have already plan to try some cleaning product to see if we could clean all the cooling system.

[Burn2]

Hello.

So here is news.
Visually water pump was ok.
As it was more the 160 000km, and i wanted to be sure that all was ok inside, we replace it.
During the replacement we found a piece of plastic inside it.
The pump was visually ok, the blade was ok and inside seems to be like new. No problem with the impeller.
I do not want to mount it again because the seal will be old, so risk of leak, and at more then 160 000km, it's time to replace it for the end of the life of the transit.

The new pump got biggest blade so could be a good point. Will try to see if it's better now
So i confirm that' normally they should be no problem with the impeller for the 2.4 tdci (except that it's plastic so it could be used but not the case here), and our at 160 000 was in a good state inside.
I do not know if this piece of plastic inside the pump could be the problem, we will see in the next travel.

For the viscous, it seems to be tired, it does not really work, even if i could hear it sometimes, so we are going to replace it too.

The CHT sensor has not been replaced. I take a look of the Voltage value, and it does not drop, or jump, it's totally linear and progressive, i doubt that it could deviate progressively "only" at some temperature. (on idle it's near 87° so pretty normal)
After the viscous it will be the next replacement if i see something wrong.
90° only for a CHT temp on heavy transit (more the 3T) is not the target on road, i think that with the time needed to transfert heat on LDR + the time needed to open the calorstat + the fact that it's a CHT sensor and not the EOT sensor, it could jump to more then 100° then down.
The default calorstat open at 88° on LDR, so CHT should be on more then 90°
With a constant charge/speed and open calorstat, it should stabilize near 90° but with variations of temp, so open/closed calorstat it could move.
I know that there is a 83° calorstat that could exist, if it's open early and is full at the same temperature of the 88°, could be a solution to have less peak, but should be the same at full charge.

[Brettbear63]

My mechanic tried to just fitted the new front part of my pump to the old rear and it leaked like a sieve , 2.4 rwd 2009 330 . He had to fit the whole pump