Intermittent DPF problems Transit 2012

[tranmx2]

Seems I ran out of quotes.

You'll need to know the differences. The 2012 has 2 EGT and the 2014 has 3 EGT sensors.
It does matter which sensor is used. The increments that are read the method of reading the sensor. Ambient temp can vary within a small area. roughly ambient - likely it is.

[sandancers]

Seems I ran out of quotes.

You'll need to know the differences. The 2012 has 2 EGT and the 2014 has 3 EGT sensors.
It does matter which sensor is used. The increments that are read the method of reading the sensor. Ambient temp can vary within a small area. roughly ambient - likely it is.

I am confused, are you saying that the EGTs (exhaust gas temperature) probes are used to measure ambient temperature which is then used to determine if the glow plugs are powered up or not (from a cold start) ? I don't think so.

[metalworker0]

i dont know

As far as i know the glow plugs are only powered for several mins if its winter and temps are very low or a suppose when the ambient temp sensor is faulty

To monitor if van is in re-gen mode , some people have just put an led in the heated mirror circuit .. the mirrors are deliberately automatically powered up during a re-gen, to put more load on the engine .. thus a hotter re-gen

i don't know if the glow plugs are used in the re-gen .. they are on the ecoblue.
. 2.2 .. dont know, 2.2 euro5 maybe
but it would be good info for all here, if you find out though .

all the best.mark

[gt_addict]

Mines a 2.2 euro5. The glowplugs are activated during a regen for the glowplug in the vapouriser. But luckily, the ones in the engine don’t need to be working for the regen to do its thing.

Other vans (renault and the like) I believe, DO need to have the whole glowplug system working i.e. zero faults for the regen to work.

[tranmx2]

I am confused, are you saying that the EGTs (exhaust gas temperature) probes are used to measure ambient temperature which is then used to determine if the glow plugs are powered up or not (from a cold start) ? I don't think so.

NO!

Don't where you get that idea from.

[tranmx2]

The glowplugs are activated during a regen for the glowplug in the vapouriser. Why do that?

The vaporiser has a heater - it is not a glow plug.

[tranmx2]

i don't know if the glow plugs are used in the re-gen .. they are on the ecoblue.

There's different ways of doing it. Some Euro older engines used the glow plugs to assist with regen so it has been read. But why use a small thing to heat up a large area that is going to be heated by combustion.
The heat generated by a glow plug is intense in a small area - the heat from combustion is greater. The glow plugs aid starting.

[metalworker0]

i believe the ecoblue version pumps more fuel into the combustion chambers during regen and needs
the cylinder head glow plugs to assist combustion, it was known with the early ecoblues that failed regens or constant regens caused engine oil dilution, it uses an injection of fuel on the exhaust stroke to assist regen.. Ummm. scratching head , maybe this requires the glow plugs to keep it happy .. or the plugs are turned on to make the engine work harder by consuming electrical power which makes the alternator consume engine power.

no idea if the 2.2 euro 5 had this idea

all the best.mark

[sandancers]

I am taking the vehicle out for a long run in a couple of weeks, I am going to have the laptop connected running Forscan to record the regen situation. If / when it does a regen I will see if the leds which are looking at the engine glowplugs are flickering.

Regarding the question of what sensor passes info to the glowplug module.

I would suggest that it is either the ambient air sensor, but this would have the disadvantage of being a sort of fixed value, ie not changing as the engine heats up, so the glowplug power time on could only be altered by a look up table based on the initial ambient temperature reading.

Or the air charge reading. This would have the advantage of keeping power to the glowplugs until the air charge reading reached a set value.

OR a combination of the two above.

I wish I had access to the Venn diagrams or software listings for that particular module !

[tranmx2]

disadvantage of being a sort of fixed value - an ambient temp below 5 C - below 5 C is the fixed value.
ECT when it gets to a value when the atomised diesel can easily combust.
About 80 C is the flash point of liquid diesel. Atomised diesel could flash at a lower temp'.
Two switches one for below 5 C from the ambient temp sensor and one from the ECT sensor monitored by the PCM which activates components to function or not.

The 2012 does not have an ambient temp sensor nor a cylinder head temp sensor - the ECT or/and the oil temp sensors could be used, there is a temp sensor in the MAF another temp' sensor at the outlet of the air inlet system heat exchanger.


How are the LEDs switched on - is an amp meter used to sense current flow on a 5 V sensor wire? Do the LEDs have their own power supply do they work of 12V or 5V?

[tranmx2]

it uses an injection of fuel on the exhaust stroke to assist regen.. Ummm. scratching head , maybe this requires the glow plugs to keep it happy.
Combustion temps are likely to be much higher and greater than that produced by a glow plug.
Injecting fuel into the exhaust on an exhaust stroke is going to produce back pressure/sonic pulsing within the exhaust.
Could be they have picked up an idea used on 2 stroke engines to help close the exhaust port.

The rule of thumb was get the air in without restriction - get the exhaust out without restriction. On 4 stroke engines a megaphone was used to assist the evacuation of the exhaust gasses, on 2 strokes the exhaust was shaped to cause sonic wave forms to help close the exhaust port and evacuate the exhaust gasses.

[metalworker0]

Think this is more like afterburner on a jet engine me thinks .. but for regen not power .

ebcoblue motors are having valve problems .. i wonder why?

all the best.mark

[sandancers]

PXL_20260731_084113058.MP.jpg

How are the LEDs switched on - is an amp meter used to sense current flow on a 5 V sensor wire? Do the LEDs have their own power supply do they work of 12V or 5V?

Very simple for the engine glow plugs, using a scope meter I measured the running voltage, which as shown above was 11.1 volts, then simply wired a 12v led to the end of each glowplug, with the led in a little box on the dash. The leds do not need any limiting resistors or zeners. They strike up at about 5v and will stay on down to about 3v, so dead simple. The neg wire is taken to an earth point back on the cylinder head just in case there is a difference in p.d. on the head compared to any other earth point. The vaporiser pump and glowplug will be a little more difficult as the 12v led will need to be wired across each one as they use a negative side switching system.

Above is a screen shot of two separate engine start tests, high ambient temps, so hardly any solid on voltage at the start of each run. Average voltage should be disregarded as it read all of the test time on just the on times.

[tranmx2]

A bit of info which might help, this from my 2014 MK7 140ps E5 engine;


To test EGR. When engine hot, idle for 5 min, should see MAF read 17 / 18 grams per sec at end, EGR should show closed or % near closed. Blip throttle to 2500 EGR should open and MAF read 8 grams per second. If the reading does not change then probably the EGR is stuck.


Self clean of DPF usually happens once every tank full of fuel

Min temp in DPF @550c Max temp 600+c Time about 20 min per regen


EGT temps in regen (on my vehicle)

EGT 11 440 – 450


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvZDQrCb-7U - 3 EGT sensors.

EGT 12 580-600
EGT 13 630-645


Vaporiser fuel pump 2hz at engine idle, 14hz at full throttle, pressure of fuel delivered is under 2B


A project I am doing on my vehicle right now is to put led indicators in a box on the dash showing when power is sent to the engine glow plugs, there seems to be confusion as to if the engine glow plugs play any part in the regen process, the leds will settle that. I am also going to put led indicators to the dash from the vaporiser glow plug and the vaporiser fuel pump. These will show when power is applied to both these items, therefore showing if the engine is demanding a regen. Obviously is the vaporiser head was blocked then that would not show up on the leds.

[sandancers]

A bit of info which might help, this from my 2014 MK7 140ps E5 engine;


To test EGR. When engine hot, idle for 5 min, should see MAF read 17 / 18 grams per sec at end, EGR should show closed or % near closed. Blip throttle to 2500 EGR should open and MAF read 8 grams per second. If the reading does not change then probably the EGR is stuck.


Self clean of DPF usually happens once every tank full of fuel

Min temp in DPF @550c Max temp 600+c Time about 20 min per regen


EGT temps in regen (on my vehicle)

EGT 11 440 – 450


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvZDQrCb-7U - 3 EGT sensors.

EGT 12 580-600
EGT 13 630-645


Vaporiser fuel pump 2hz at engine idle, 14hz at full throttle, pressure of fuel delivered is under 2B


A project I am doing on my vehicle right now is to put led indicators in a box on the dash showing when power is sent to the engine glow plugs, there seems to be confusion as to if the engine glow plugs play any part in the regen process, the leds will settle that. I am also going to put led indicators to the dash from the vaporiser glow plug and the vaporiser fuel pump. These will show when power is applied to both these items, therefore showing if the engine is demanding a regen. Obviously is the vaporiser head was blocked then that would not show up on the leds.

Yes I had seen that Youtube before. As Jimmy says it's incredible that people could not spot the broken wire.

I have an industrial hot air gun and out of interest put Forscan on and monitored the EGTs, just ignition on engine not running, took out each sensor and put the hot air gun onto it at 300c. It was easy to watch the sensor temps rise quite quickly to very close to the applied heat temperature.

Why a garage could not to that with the Transit in the video is beyond me.