Timing chain replacement problems

[marc1234567]

I have posted here before about this but the basics are
I have been doing some of this work with a back street garage mechanic assisting.
2.4 diesel. I

Timing chain snapped.

People here advised check cradle for damage and stripped bolts. seemed ok

Fitted chain and engine become stuck whilst turning over by hand with pry bar on crankshaft pulley

Checked here, guys pretty adamant that valves etc do not break or bend in chain slip or break situation. advised check timing etc

Mechanic pretty sure timing cannot be wrong as 2 pins of cam sprockets , 1 on fuel pump and 1 in crankshaft pully sensor with timing marks on chain alligned with those on sprocket/

only thing i recall was that one timing chain mark was not perfectly alligned with one on sprocket, but it was very slight and seemed that it was as close as it would be able to get as one cog to left or right would be worse . i did question this with mechanic and noticed that each sprocket has three bolt holes and it would seem that sprocket is moveable side to side on the axis of the three bolts. Mechanic is adamant that it was timed right though as the pins .

based on above , we removed head and there is no damage. so pretty confused . Mechanic is confused starts aying that he is sure timing is right but I cannot understand how it could have been as with head off the engine turns over fine. he kind of agrees when i say timing logically must be off but is confused , I guess he may be embarassed or covering up somehow but i saw him doing the timing and it was as described above.

Is there anything about doing the timing that possible went wrong? Can moving the sprockets a bit with the three bolts loosened make a difference?

Any help would be vvery appreciated.

[dumper]

Not sure but I think I have seen a post on hear saying that there are two holes in flywheel you can get the pin in with you having the head off put it on no1 top dead centre and see if you can get the lock pin in then you’ll know crank is right

[marc1234567]

Was speaking to someone earlier and they are suggesting that

the timing holes have to be pinned with the bolts securing the sprockets loose and then the tensioner is activated. then sprocket bolts then tightened.

they were thinking that if you dont do in that order there will be slack in the chain or somehthing.

[marc1234567]

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=139523&p=1160050

does this seem right

"looks ok didnt you line up the coloured links,and did you pin flywheel and have sprockets undone when releasing tentioner,,you would then fit remaining fixed guides,and tighten sprockets,remove pins and rotate engine two full turns in correct direction,then replace pins to see if they still line up,colured links would not line up at this stage,,and you did use new bolts as theyare stretch bolts and can snap if reused,
ok just re-read your answers,
you should of pinned flywheel,(you dont want to be 1 tooth out on relucter ring))( althou torq bolt on cranshaft looks quite close to where it should be) and had sprockets bolts loose,with no fixed guides in place,if you dont do this the correct tention will not be applied,i would do it again to be safe,and you should use a new crankshaft sensor to get correct air gap"

[Spacecat23]

Unless you know them it's easy to get the timing 180 degrees out as there are two deep slots 180 apart. The torx bolt on the crank sprocket should be at about half past 10 when timed right. Also it is easy for a pin to fall into any of the slots in the flywheel, it just won't go as deep. What I do is visually check and shove a mirror in the back of the exhaust manifold at an angle, shine a torch to it shines in the sensor hole and you'll see when you're on the correct slot

[loot]

Did you check the crank was at 11oclock there's a torx.

Take the crank pulley off and you'll see it.
Picture taken from youtube.

[marc1234567]

Did you check the crank was at 11oclock there's a torx.

Take the crank pulley off and you'll see it.
Picture taken from youtube.

I dont recall that being mentioned. I dont really understand what you mean.

Could you say a bit more about this?

Edit... many thanks I understand now.

[marc1234567]

Unless you know them it's easy to get the timing 180 degrees out as there are two deep slots 180 apart. The torx bolt on the crank sprocket should be at about half past 10 when timed right. Also it is easy for a pin to fall into any of the slots in the flywheel, it just won't go as deep. What I do is visually check and shove a mirror in the back of the exhaust manifold at an angle, shine a torch to it shines in the sensor hole and you'll see when you're on the correct slot

oh really, there's a timing slot that is 180 degress out. that seems confusing and strange. Many thanks I will look out for this.

[inasinman]

Hi there.

To find out if you have the right hole:):)

When you remove your crank angle sensor. Take notice of its distance. The right timing flywheel slot will go at least 10 mm more.

If you have already put your front engine cover back. Just remove the front panel of your diesel pump and check through there.


Cheers

[LoaghtanChaser]

Hi, this post has saved me a lot of head scratching, thankyou!
I've been rebuilding my engine after the EGR valve fell to pieces and knackered up a piston and the head. Went to put the timing chain on last night and she wouldn't turn over by hand. Read this post thismorning and realised I had the crank locking pin in the wrong slot.... Didn't realise this was possible. Thanks very much indeed.

[loot]

You can take the crank pulley off and there's a torx bolt that holds the crank sprocket on. When timed up it should be roughly 11pm so top and left.

I wouldn't rely on the fuel pump timing only because(this refers to tdci) the fuel pump isn't required to be timed a so can be anywhere really and still work.

[rotory]

4AD20C8A-3277-4D81-A444-B6212F2EDB4A.jpeg

8
Ideally the crank mount should be at this angle