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Proper mk7 4x4. (none of yr namby pamby AWD nonsense)

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Re: Proper mk7 4x4. (none of yr namby pamby AWD nonsense)

Postby twin--turbo » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:48 pm

Ok, so you need to measure the switch "SIG" levels against ground with a solid VREF voltage. (5V was the usual VREF, I doubt it's changed)

And also drive the motor and again mesure "SIG", I presume it will either give 3 distinct outputs or just a fully variable output.

Can the selector shaft rotate 360 continuously?


TT
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Re: Proper mk7 4x4. (none of yr namby pamby AWD nonsense)

Postby Airthies » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:06 pm

twin--turbo wrote:Ok, so you need to measure the switch "SIG" levels against ground with a solid VREF voltage. (5V was the usual VREF, I doubt it's changed)

And also drive the motor and again mesure "SIG", I presume it will either give 3 distinct outputs or just a fully variable output.

Can the selector shaft rotate 360 continuously?


TT
Yea I've measured the switch and got three set resistances, one for each point, but that was before I got the wiring diagrams and found the voltage value, so as you say, will need to check the that next, which is why I've got the Adriano trinket which will give me my voltage and ground to measure against.

As for the motor, yes it can rotate 360 continuously, I'm worried I may have to strip the box to work out it's position for each selector position, or find a friendly person who doesn't mind me using there shiny ranger as a test

So just need to get the trinket powered up and do a bit of testing so can get some values to work with.

Any idea if I can power up the trinket and use it without programming it first? I'm guessing yes and going off the pinout diagram the ports will be live regardless of programming.

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Re: Proper mk7 4x4. (none of yr namby pamby AWD nonsense)

Postby APH » Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:26 pm

I may be wrong, but it looks like that shift motor PCB is using hall effect sensors to detect the rotation of the plastic nut (inside which will be a fixed magnet). if you connect its 5v and ground and then measure the output voltage on the sig wire, you should get 3 very decisive changes in voltage, as the 3 selector positions are achieved. Hopefully thats what its doing, as thats easier to work with, otherwise you have to start counting pulses..... Does the motor have to reverse, or can the box change back from 4l to 2h by keep turning in the same direction... programming will be a lot easier if the motor only goes one way, otherwise you have to tell it code to reverse the motor in relation to the switch variable, such as when the selector switch resistance is seen to change from high to lower or low to higher.(whichever way it actually changes) otherwise the motor will always try and go the same way.

Andy
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Re: Proper mk7 4x4. (none of yr namby pamby AWD nonsense)

Postby Airthies » Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:12 am

APH wrote:I may be wrong, but it looks like that shift motor PCB is using hall effect sensors to detect the rotation of the plastic nut (inside which will be a fixed magnet). if you connect its 5v and ground and then measure the output voltage on the sig wire, you should get 3 very decisive changes in voltage, as the 3 selector positions are achieved. Hopefully thats what its doing, as thats easier to work with, otherwise you have to start counting pulses.....


Yes I'm hoping it's three set points as that wheel/nut (I'm guesing... will only travel about 270deg rotation or something like that)


APH wrote:Does the motor have to reverse, or can the box change back from 4l to 2h by keep turning in the same direction...
Andy

Looking at the schematics there's two relays for the motor, which are CW & CCW which means the motor turns both ways,

Oh and cheers for the help so far guys, looking forward to getting this working



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Re: Proper mk7 4x4. (none of yr namby pamby AWD nonsense)

Postby DAZZ » Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:22 am

or use the box from the previous year ranger (I had a mk3/4) that had a proper lever that goes clunk to select the ratios - no electronics lol

but seriously enjoying following this - good luck 8)
2008 mk7 280 85 Crew cab - poverty spec :lol:
Replaced with......... a 300c estate :lol:

now sold, the judder did me ed' in :lol:
suppose my 350z and hayabusa will have to do for now :twisted:
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Re: Proper mk7 4x4. (none of yr namby pamby AWD nonsense)

Postby Airthies » Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:55 pm

Cheers Dazz

I looked at many box options but the box that started the whole concept is still I think the best choice, the mt82 from the TKE ranger, even with it's electronic puzzle.
Though I have thought of making a manual selector to fit the box where the motor currently sits but quite like the idea of just a switch on the dash as I've no idea where I'd put another gearstick

The start of the selection process was that the 2.4 in my van is basicly the same lump as the 2.2 in the transit and mostly the same as the 3.2 which is also in the rangers so the mt82 is transferable across the models.
It also has the Dropbox and front diff on the left which means less greef with the steering column

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Re: Proper mk7 4x4. (none of yr namby pamby AWD nonsense)

Postby Airthies » Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:26 pm

So some more bits arrived to help me sort out the selector conundrum Image

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Re: Proper mk7 4x4. (none of yr namby pamby AWD nonsense)

Postby twin--turbo » Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:01 pm

Airthies wrote:Any idea if I can power up the trinket and use it without programming it first? I'm guessing yes and going off the pinout diagram the ports will be live regardless of programming.

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The Arduino will do nothing without programing.

The program will have to take the value from the switch on one analog pin ( or you could build a new digital switch), and then run the motor until the voltage on the analog pin is equal to that required to set the gearbox in the correct mode... On the face of it not too hard but you may run into issues like the motor overshooting, which in turn may require driving it with PWM and slowing the motor down as it approaches the desited set point... There may also be a good FUDGE factor already mechanical built into what is probably a hydrualic valve block.

TT
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Re: Proper mk7 4x4. (none of yr namby pamby AWD nonsense)

Postby Airthies » Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:50 pm

twin--turbo wrote:The Arduino will do nothing without programing.

Poo, had hoped it would have a default status which would see at least 1 or 2 permanent powered terminals.
Have had that on some machine modules before, that's a scunner.

twin--turbo wrote: The program will have to take the value from the switch on one analog pin ( or you could build a new digital switch)


I've got multi-position digital switches but if I'm going to write a program for the motor controls it'd be nice to use the original switch too.

twin--turbo wrote:you may run into issues like the motor overshooting, which in turn may require driving it with PWM and slowing the motor down as it approaches the desited set point...



twin--turbo wrote:There may also be a good FUDGE factor already mechanical built into what is probably a hydrualic valve block.
TT


There 's no hydraulics involved. The selector motor is connected to a barrel matrix for changing selection.
But think it'll be slow enough as the motor is a worm gear and then there's another two reductions after that so don't think it's going to be that quick. Have planned to rig up a wee test and see also play with the box and hopefully work out where the motor positions should be.

Cheers though it's good to get objective questions, I've tried to think through most things and have theories and concepts of how I want to do things but I far from know everything


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Re: Proper mk7 4x4. (none of yr namby pamby AWD nonsense)

Postby DAZZ » Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:21 pm

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Unimog-404-t ... SwaWpbmYJi
job done lol


hows the project coming along?
2008 mk7 280 85 Crew cab - poverty spec :lol:
Replaced with......... a 300c estate :lol:

now sold, the judder did me ed' in :lol:
suppose my 350z and hayabusa will have to do for now :twisted:
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Re: Proper mk7 4x4. (none of yr namby pamby AWD nonsense)

Postby Airthies » Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:32 pm

DAZZ wrote:https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Unimog-404-turbo-diesel-with-Transit-cab-and-tipping-back-1959-tax-mot-exempt/223144395247?hash=item33f47141ef:g:sKUAAOSwaWpbmYJi
job done lol


hows the project coming along?
There s a lot of no obvious progress at the no but lots of thinking and headscratching going on, but hopefully get the box in doo as it's been sitting waiting for a while an my current box is a little rattley
And yea seen that unimog before. Looks better with a transit she'll that the usual factory cab

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Re: Proper mk7 4x4. (none of yr namby pamby AWD nonsense)

Postby twin--turbo » Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:45 am

You may find drag and drop block coding helpful.

This works for basic stuff but is no longer supported.
http://blog.ardublock.com

Also Scratch works but I think there is a limitation...
http://playground.arduino.cc/interfacing/scratch
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Re: Proper mk7 4x4. (none of yr namby pamby AWD nonsense)

Postby twin--turbo » Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:52 am

If you want an idea what other Arduino Boards are capable of look at speeduino. ;)
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Re: Proper mk7 4x4. (none of yr namby pamby AWD nonsense)

Postby Airthies » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:26 pm

twin--turbo wrote:You may find drag and drop block coding helpful.

This works for basic stuff but is no longer supported.
http://blog.ardublock.com

Also Scratch works but I think there is a limitation...
http://playground.arduino.cc/interfacing/scratch


Cheers TT
Actually found there has been an updated Ardublock which works.
Got installed and just need to have a play with it now.
Started roughing out the processes so can get an idea of what's required, looks very rough I know but I think I know what I want just need to workout how to make it into a working program gota start somewhere



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Re: Proper mk7 4x4. (none of yr namby pamby AWD nonsense)

Postby loot » Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:41 am

Haven't you done it yet mate? :P simple set of levers and pulleys should do, was the foundation of Britain you know 8)

Can't find the other thread but I'd use genuine Ford supplied brakes :wink:
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