Starting problems Tranzit

[Brigadoon]

Hi.I am in New Zealand and own a 2009 Ford Tranzit Camper Van which I bought off a German man who imported to NZ.It was 5 months old with 3500 miles on speedo.
It is a 2.2 TDCI Diesel motor,Front wheel drive,right hand drive,made for the British market.
At 21000 miles it blew the motor and had to import a short-block from Australia as they were not brought into NZ.NZ has rear wheel drive 2.3 ltr motors.
The failure of the motor was a hole in number 2 piston with cracks in remaining 3 pistons.$12,000.00 nz we were back on the road.
My problem now is starting problems.
The motor has now done aprox 28000 miles and when I was away in the van recently we went to start one morning and it would not fire up.
Was trucked to a motor shop where two men worked on it for five hours,with all sorts of plug in devices and could not come up with anything conclusive except that
the main starting battery (one of two) was showing a bit of a drop under load.
With the help of a extra starting pack they eventually got us started,so we drove the 500 km home without shutting it down.Went perfect all the way home.
At home I tow started it without any problems to get it to an Auto Electrical shop where they tested the batteries and gave the same news that one battery was a little
suspect.As these batteries were 9 years old I got them to replace them both with original type batteries.( #E38 silver plates)
This however did not fix the problem and after 3 hrs on scan tools they cannot find any electrical fault and have advised possible faulty fuel system and to go to mechanical
shop.I have tried the spare key as someone told me that these can sometimes fail ?? Did not make any difference.
I very much like this van when it is going well.It has plenty of power (more grunt than a Russian tennis player) and drives well.
Sadly I have had a few costly problems.
If anyone can shed some light on what may be the problem for starting it would be much appreciated before I go back to the mechanical people.Thanks.

[knobby1]

I'm guessing a blown PRV (pressure relief valve) causing your starting problems. This is often caused by a duff SCV, (suction control valve).

You shouldn't "tow start" a transit....they have a tendency to jump teeth on the timing gears/chain and you'll end up with more problems.

Lord Knobrot

[Brigadoon]

Hi Nobby.
Thanks for your reply.
Is this the valve on the side of the pump.If it is this was replaced when new short block was done about 7000 miles ago.
Thanks for the advice on the tow starting as I was not aware of that.I have only done it once and it started easily.
The electrical shop used ether squirted into the air cleaner.They advised that this is also not a good practise.
I have had to do this twice so I could move it.Will have to do this to get it to the mechanical shop.
When we put the new short block in we had a car doctor look to see if they could find what might have caused pistons to fail at 21000 miles.He reconed that it was the valve on the side of the pump and had this replaced it.He also went through all the injectors etc to Make sure things were ok.He also at the time said he had picked up a possible pending fault with
the ingnition key or ignition barrel I think,and said it would be wise to replace this.
I had forgotten about it until I had this problem.
I have told both lots of people that have had a go at fixing but they said that this has not shown up on their machines.
I have also tried spare key.
Many thanks again.
Brendan.

[knobby1]

There are two valves which commonly give issues. The PRV is the one which lives on the end of the fuel rail....and the SCV which live on the pump, we routinely replace them both, then do pump, and injector learns so they all work together as they should.

A blown PRV will often cause starting and running issues, the SCV is the valve which often causes the PRV to blow.

Lord Knobrot

[bambi mk 1]

Hi Nobby.
Thanks for your reply.
Is this the valve on the side of the pump.If it is this was replaced when new short block was done about 7000 miles ago.
Thanks for the advice on the tow starting as I was not aware of that.I have only done it once and it started easily.
The electrical shop used ether squirted into the air cleaner.They advised that this is also not a good practise.
I have had to do this twice so I could move it.Will have to do this to get it to the mechanical shop.
When we put the new short block in we had a car doctor look to see if they could find what might have caused pistons to fail at 21000 miles.He reconed that it was the valve on the side of the pump and had this replaced it.He also went through all the injectors etc to Make sure things were ok.He also at the time said he had picked up a possible pending fault with
the ingnition key or ignition barrel I think,and said it would be wise to replace this.
I had forgotten about it until I had this problem.
I have told both lots of people that have had a go at fixing but they said that this has not shown up on their machines.
I have also tried spare key.
Many thanks again.
Brendan.

Does it fire up on easy start straight away If it does change the ign switch ,its only the electrical bit you change

[Brigadoon]

Hi Knobby.
Thanks again for your reply.
I have only started motor with easy-start twice. I just did what the electrical shop did.
Poll hose on the intake to the air cleaner and squirt for about 1 to 2 seconds while someone operates the starter.
And yes this starts easily.
Also once the motor is going there seems to be no problems.
I drove it home 500 km and it went like a dream. Did not switch it off for five hours.
When you say look at the ignition switch, do you mean the barrel that the key goes into?
Also it was the SCV that was replaced when short-block was fitted.
The car doctor seemed to think that this was the cause of the motor over heating the pistons and hence cracking and failure.
Unfortunately these motors do not have liners like a lot of the truck motors, so if you damage the bore they are through away.
I believe (from what reply's I got from this forum when motor blew) that this is a common fault with this year motor.
I was lead to believe that this 2.2 TDCI motor was developed by Ford,Fiat and I think Peugeot.I think they had pistol cracking problems at low mileage?
Not sure if the motor had an after market upgrade to a stronger piston? They could not tell me when new short-block was fitted.
Thanks again for your very appreciated views on this.I can at least go back to the "professionals" with some ideas.
Any other thoughts would be much appreciated thanks.
Cheers Brendan.

[knobby1]

Hi Knobby.
Thanks again for your reply.
I have only started motor with easy-start twice. I just did what the electrical shop did.
Poll hose on the intake to the air cleaner and squirt for about 1 to 2 seconds while someone operates the starter.
And yes this starts easily.
Also once the motor is going there seems to be no problems.
I drove it home 500 km and it went like a dream. Did not switch it off for five hours.
When you say look at the ignition switch, do you mean the barrel that the key goes into?
Also it was the SCV that was replaced when short-block was fitted.
The car doctor seemed to think that this was the cause of the motor over heating the pistons and hence cracking and failure.
Unfortunately these motors do not have liners like a lot of the truck motors, so if you damage the bore they are through away.
I believe (from what reply's I got from this forum when motor blew) that this is a common fault with this year motor.
I was lead to believe that this 2.2 TDCI motor was developed by Ford,Fiat and I think Peugeot.I think they had pistol cracking problems at low mileage?
Not sure if the motor had an after market upgrade to a stronger piston? They could not tell me when new short-block was fitted.
Thanks again for your very appreciated views on this.I can at least go back to the "professionals" with some ideas.
Any other thoughts would be much appreciated thanks.
Cheers Brendan.

I still think it's your PRV which has blown.....using easy-start sort of by-passes the prv to a point, once the engine fires the fuel rail pressure, although low, will be enough to keep the engine running.
The ignition switch lives on the back of the key barrel, it's the electrical bit, cheap and easy to replace.

Forget about aftermarket piston upgrades, Fiat and Peugeot etc...some of the 2.2's were indeed prone to cracking pistons if the fuel system wasn't kept running properly. The later ones had oil pump issues too.
You also need to get your van looked at by someone who knows what they're doing and get a proper code read..

When the SCV was replaced, were the learns done successfully.??

Lord Knobrot

[Brigadoon]

Hi Knobby.
Gee that was a quick reply thanks.
Being down -under usually means a wait.
I am not mechanical enough to know where to look for the PRV but hopefully if I can get it to town (we live in the country) this week I will
pass on what you have told us to look for.
Your input is very much appreciated.
I am 70 years of age and I even surprise myself sometimes how I manage to "drive my computer" to find these sort of forums to get great information.
Cheers Brendan.

[knobby1]

Hi Knobby.
Gee that was a quick reply thanks.
Being down -under usually means a wait.
I am not mechanical enough to know where to look for the PRV but hopefully if I can get it to town (we live in the country) this week I will
pass on what you have told us to look for.
Your input is very much appreciated.
I am 70 years of age and I even surprise myself sometimes how I manage to "drive my computer" to find these sort of forums to get great information.
Cheers Brendan.

I'm downunder too..!!

Lord Knobrot

[Brigadoon]

Hi Knobby.
I now see Sydney Australia.Sorry I just assumed I was conversing with a Pom.OOps I mean Brit.
Hey ,sorry about the Rugby last night.
Your guys went pretty good we thought.
You obviously have a bit to do with these Transits?
Front wheel drive Transits are pretty rare in NZ.
Usually rear wheel drive and 2.3 ltr motors.
I like the 2.2 ltr. It goes like a raped goat.lol Not sure if you have seen one of these goooo.
Many thanks.
Brendan.

[Brigadoon]

Hi Knobby,
Sorry I only half read and answered your previous post.
Yes, we did get a car doctor (I think he was an Auto electrician) to do the diagnostic work on the new motor.
He was the one who alerted me to the ignition fault and I had forgotten about it.
He told me that he had altered the fuel and injector settings and also told me to run a engine (diesel) additive every so often to the fuel tank.
He was the one who also replaced the SCV .
Yes ,GREAT advice to make sure that the garage has the right testing equipment. Otherwise it is about as useless as an ashtray on my Jet ski.
Many thanks.
Brendan.
ps I do wonder how some of these people stay in business ??
My parents business failed when I was a young fellar.
They had an Iron & Steel business and mom stopped ironing and dad stopped stealing.

[Brigadoon]

Hi Knobby.
I have talked to the local Ford garage this morning,and have booked van to go in next week.The earliest they can see it.
I mentioned that I had been talking with you and that you had said that you thought that the PRV was one of the first thing we should look at.
They said that the PRV does not come on its own and that the whole rail has to be purchased? They have not told me the price but said it would be expensive.
Your thoughts on this would be appreciated.
Many thanks.
Brendan.

[daraioj]

Ford's own workshop manual has instructions on how to replace the PRV and (spoiler alert) it doesn't involve buying a new rail.

[bambi mk 1]

Hi Knobby.
I have talked to the local Ford garage this morning,and have booked van to go in next week.The earliest they can see it.
I mentioned that I had been talking with you and that you had said that you thought that the PRV was one of the first thing we should look at.
They said that the PRV does not come on its own and that the whole rail has to be purchased? They have not told me the price but said it would be expensive.
Your thoughts on this would be appreciated.
Many thanks.
Brendan.

The prv can be bought on its own ,the pressure sensor with an electrical plug on the other end of the rail has to be purchased with the rail from Ford but can be sourced on its own elsewhere.As i posted earlier try the ign switch first as it is costs only small money.You may be best going to a independant fuel shop if the problem persists as the dealer seems not be able to tell his ass from his elbow .

[knobby1]

What our other chaps have said, the PRV and pressure sensor can be purchased separately. The pressure sensor rarely fails. The fuel rail itself is just a glorified piece of cast iron pipe with holes in, there's nothing inside it.

I'd also suggest you do as Bambi has mentioned and try the ignition switch first, it's cheap and easy to do and will eliminate it as an issue.