*NOW BOOKED FOR 2024* Transitmania 15 @ Santa Pod 19th to 21st July 2024 *ALL DETAILS HERE*


REALLY need some help as van won't start

Transit Mk6 & Mk7 Forum. All Transits 2000 - 2013

REALLY need some help as van won't start

Postby hackmagic » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:37 pm

Hi everyone,

I went to start my transit last week and it would not. between it's last start and now there has been a lot of rain and the front windscreen drain tray was leaking (via the washer hose grommet as the washer line has been drilled though the drain tray at mid height) onto the fuse box and cabling below. The ECU reads DTC P1631 PCM main relay. The battery is fully charged and seems to try to turn over okay (but i'm not 100% sure tbh).

I have had a 'mechanic' out (as i forgot i had breakdown cover) and he has done nothing but disconnect the fuel return pipe and try to start the engine, then also removed the fuel filter and poured most of the diesel out to check if it was contaminated. He did not refill it. He told me that almost 100% the fuel pump needs replaced as there was no fuel coming from the return line. I have almost zero confidence in him as the only 'tool' he brought to the job was a can of deicer to spray into the air inlet to see if it would combust?? He was aware of the above information before he started.

I'm not sure how to proceed from here. I have an appointment for rustproofing in 2 weeks and i need to use the van before then also. Should i call the breakdown cover? Should refill filter with diesel and try to bleed the fuel system before they comes or just tell them whats happened and let them sort it out (having some diesel handy)?

I'd love to get involved technically but i'm really pushed for time and getting pretty stressed. Sound advice is much appreciated.

Regards,


Peter
2005 Ford Transit Mk6 115 LWB EF
hackmagic
Transit Fan
Transit Fan
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:27 pm

Re: REALLY need some help as van won't start

Postby Punto443 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:47 pm

Firstly I’d change the filter, fill it to the top before refitting and try again.

If there is no codes relating to the pump, then I would not jump to the conclusion that it is at fault.
Could be as simple as a faulty ignition switch, blown fuse or possibly crank sensor.

The ecu needs a good charge to run and a failing battery could be the cause of the main relay code. Has it been properly drop load tested?
Your bullets cannot harm me, my wings are like a shield of steel

2018 Renault trafic
my old mk7
my old mk6
my xr3i
User avatar
Punto443
Site Moderator
 
Posts: 15872
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:53 pm
Location: Deep fried pizza country

Re: REALLY need some help as van won't start

Postby hackmagic » Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:00 pm

Hi Punto443,

Many thanks for the reply. Yep the battery was fully charged (tested with a Ring charger) and was 95% with 790 of the 800 CCAs available. I'll make sure it's back to full before trying again. When i read the codes it told me that the "Visteon ECM doesn't support reading PIDs from the Fuel Injection Pump module." would this mean it couldn't give me any codes at all?

Okay, i'll get a new filter and fit it tomorrow. I ordered a simple bleed pump and will give that a go then too.

Would the temporary disconnection of the fuel return line (at the quick release elbow) cause any further problems?

Regards,


Peter
2005 Ford Transit Mk6 115 LWB EF
hackmagic
Transit Fan
Transit Fan
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:27 pm

Re: REALLY need some help as van won't start

Postby hackmagic » Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:19 pm

Oh, could you also tell me if the fuel lines at the filte are 8mm? There were two hand pump sizes - 6mm and 8mm.

Regards,

Peter
2005 Ford Transit Mk6 115 LWB EF
hackmagic
Transit Fan
Transit Fan
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:27 pm

Re: REALLY need some help as van won't start

Postby Punto443 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:20 pm

The disconnection shouldn’t really cause any probs, although could have allowed the fuel to drain back to the tank.

I’d get a proper code reader to check for codes. Use your breakdown cover and see if they can read them.

No idea about the pipe size, been years since I had a mk6
Your bullets cannot harm me, my wings are like a shield of steel

2018 Renault trafic
my old mk7
my old mk6
my xr3i
User avatar
Punto443
Site Moderator
 
Posts: 15872
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:53 pm
Location: Deep fried pizza country

Re: REALLY need some help as van won't start

Postby hackmagic » Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:51 pm

Thanks Punto443. So the result of fuel drain back to the tank is a longer bleed?

If the pump has failed then will it be impossible to bleed or would cracking the fuel line at the injector be sufficient to allow the hand pump to work?

I'm sorry if these questions are so basic that it's frustrating/tiresome to answer. I guess this is why there is breakdown cover, though i would much rather learn and become self-sufficient. Simply a little pressed for time at the moment.
2005 Ford Transit Mk6 115 LWB EF
hackmagic
Transit Fan
Transit Fan
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:27 pm

Re: REALLY need some help as van won't start - bad to worse

Postby hackmagic » Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:28 am

So it turns out there is more than one bad mechanic.

I bought a new filter and some diesel but decided not to fit it myself as I didn't want to do something even slightly incorrect and complicate matters further.

I explained the situation, that the filter would be at least half empty, and I had a new one. The breakdown mechanic loosened an injector supply line and turned it over he told me that it looked like the filter had primed itself. I told him I didn't think this was mechanically possible, but he assured me he knew.

So he began to bleed the fuel lines, one injector at a time. It started, he turned it off after 2 seconds and it wouldn't start again. Again he bled. By the time he got to injector 4 the lines were bone dry. After lots of cranking he decided to stop as the starter was smoking, and then check the filter. Lo and behold, it was empty. So the new one was filled and replaced, and bleeding commenced again.

Once seemingly fully bled it wouldn't start.

A colleague arrived with a tow bar and towing in second gear commenced. The engine combusted while the clutch was released but when pressed it would cut out. The mechanic driving my van noted that it had consistently been in the redline (or above) while towing.

The van is now to be towed to a local garage, with a good reputation, for inspection.

If you've gotten this far I'd like to ask a few things:
1. Is it possible that the starter motor has been damaged?
2. Would this prevent the engine from holding its combustion?
3. Would turning the engine over at redline and greater rpm (7000+?) cause damage to the engine and fuel pump?

I am in the middle of a camper conversion on the Luton box and this is the main reason I don't have time, mental capacity nor finances to begin learning how to strip engines and buying tools. It was on my list when the conversion was finished, to become self-sufficient.

This is obviously immensely frustrating to me and I would be immensely grateful for some opinions on the situation as it's becoming increasingly hard to trust any individual mechanics' judgement.

Thanks again for taking the time to read.


Peter
2005 Ford Transit Mk6 115 LWB EF
hackmagic
Transit Fan
Transit Fan
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:27 pm

Re: REALLY need some help as van won't start

Postby hackmagic » Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:33 am

I also forgot to add that he cleared the DTC code and it only during the extensive cranking did a different code appear, relating to the ignition switch. He cleared this and at the last reading there were no codes present.
2005 Ford Transit Mk6 115 LWB EF
hackmagic
Transit Fan
Transit Fan
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:27 pm

Re: REALLY need some help as van won't start

Postby Punto443 » Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:05 am

Why he turned it off after 2 seconds puzzles me?

If it started he should of let it run at 1500-2000rpm for a minute or so to fully bleed the system!
I don’t honestly know if the engine/pump will have been damaged with it over reving without running?

If it runs at all, I’d be 99% it’s not the pump and would still suspect it’s a bleeding issue.
Your bullets cannot harm me, my wings are like a shield of steel

2018 Renault trafic
my old mk7
my old mk6
my xr3i
User avatar
Punto443
Site Moderator
 
Posts: 15872
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:53 pm
Location: Deep fried pizza country

Re: REALLY need some help as van won't start

Postby hackmagic » Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:17 am

Thanks again Punto443. An old neighbour and myself had another go at bleeding, but i think we may have needed the primer hand pump. It's off to the garage today, hopefully they can turn it around quickly and it's not someting serious. I swore to myself i'd sort out the next issue that popped up, but it will have to be for another day when life affords me the time and money.
2005 Ford Transit Mk6 115 LWB EF
hackmagic
Transit Fan
Transit Fan
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:27 pm

Re: REALLY need some help as van won't start

Postby timewarptel » Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:44 am

Let me know how u got on. Terry
timewarptel
Transit Aficionado
Transit Aficionado
 
Posts: 220
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:30 am

Re: REALLY need some help as van won't start

Postby hackmagic » Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:04 pm

Hi,

The van has been with the garage and they have told me that the pressure from the pump is low, borderline with the minimum spec/requirements. They have informed me the fuel pump needs replaced. I'm not sure if they use IDS even though they have invested heavily in a very modern workshop, so that reduces my confidence.

I have reluctantly agreed as i don't feel i have much option. If there may be some other possible cause it would be good to hear suggestions.

Regards,


Peter
2005 Ford Transit Mk6 115 LWB EF
hackmagic
Transit Fan
Transit Fan
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:27 pm

Re: REALLY need some help as van won't start

Postby timewarptel » Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:32 pm

Hi...have they quoted you a price for a new pump.
timewarptel
Transit Aficionado
Transit Aficionado
 
Posts: 220
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:30 am

Re: REALLY need some help as van won't start

Postby Punto443 » Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:37 pm

I don’t think I have ever heard of a vp30 pump failing mechanically??

Electronically yes! But there would be codes stored.
Your bullets cannot harm me, my wings are like a shield of steel

2018 Renault trafic
my old mk7
my old mk6
my xr3i
User avatar
Punto443
Site Moderator
 
Posts: 15872
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:53 pm
Location: Deep fried pizza country

Re: REALLY need some help as van won't start

Postby hackmagic » Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:39 am

About £900 for the pump. and 5 hours to fit.
2005 Ford Transit Mk6 115 LWB EF
hackmagic
Transit Fan
Transit Fan
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:27 pm

Next

Return to Mk6 & Mk7 - Third Generation Transits



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Majestic-12 [Bot]

This site contains affiliate links for which we may be compensated.