Strange starter motor issue.

[ian mk6]

2007, 2.2fwd 110. When I go to start the van it will sort of act like having a flat battery. Starter slows/stalls, sounds like a relay or something buzzing behind the dash, lights dim, occasionally looses the radio code.

BUT.. immediately try again, letting the glow plug light go out and it spins and starts as it should.

It seems worse when cold starting but it also happens sometimes when warm if it's stopped and started straight away.

I think my batteries are good (both batteries only a few years old). Will get a multimeter on them (do I need to disconnect both batteries to get accurate individual readings?). The ignition switch was replaced a year or two ago with a new, genuine Ford one..

I'm thinking that there may be a short to ground on the glowplug circuit that is stealing all the power until the relay turns off, is there a fuse I can pull to test this?

I did suspect the starter at first but I'm not so sure now as sometimes it spins perfectly. I have stripped and cleaned it (inc brushes and commutator) and it made a slight difference but didn't really change anything. The starter was pretty clean inside already.

My van also has a solid flywheel and the teeth I could see seemed good.

Any suggestions anyone?

I also have a problem with the outside air temp sensor, can these just be swapped or do they need programing/setting up?

Thanks

[knobby1]

If you have twin batteries fitted, the front probably one isn't well. Get them properly load tested....some batteries can hold a decent charge voltage until loaded, then they fail miserably.

Lord Knobrot

[ian mk6]

Hi knobby.

It does have twin batteries but they are only a couple of years old and will spin the starter perfectly (sometimes). No harm I'm checking them out though, been looking at load testers on fleabay and can get a old style analogue testers for a tenner, or a digital on for £24

The digital one gives loads more info but can they actually load test a battery properly when they don't have the big heating element drawing loads of power like the old style do? Not sure which to buy, a little voice is saying "just buy them both" but I've already bought an injector seat cutter set and a leak off test kit tonight lol.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TOPDON-Car-B ... 635-2958-0

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6V-12V-100-A ... 635-2958-0

[knobby1]

Hi knobby.

It does have twin batteries but they are only a couple of years old and will spin the starter perfectly (sometimes). No harm I'm checking them out though, been looking at load testers on fleabay and can get a old style analogue testers for a tenner, or a digital on for £24

The digital one gives loads more info but can they actually load test a battery properly when they don't have the big heating element drawing loads of power like the old style do? Not sure which to buy, a little voice is saying "just buy them both" but I've already bought an injector seat cutter set and a leak off test kit tonight lol.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TOPDON-Car-B ... 635-2958-0

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6V-12V-100-A ... 635-2958-0

Just because the batteries are only a couple of years old means nothing. Do you swap them around front to rear every 6 months or so to share the load..?? Loosing the radio code is the giveaway. All the electrics are run by the front battery, rear battery is starter battery. they are both joined together for starting. When trying to start, if the front battery is not well, the voltage drops so low it can also pull down the rear and the radio drops out and looses it's code. Do you sometimes have "-----" in the little LCD screen in the speedo..??

Yes, the old analogue load testers are good, I have one myself. The new digital ones are also pretty good, I believe they use a large capacity solid state resistor to do the "load".

Lord Knobrot

[ian mk6]

I'm open to the battery being at fault as I know the front battery causes problems. If it was a bad battery though I wouldn't expect it to have no juice on one attempt but then spin the starter full power the next.

Maybe the glow plugs are just enough to pull it down over the edge but it will still do it after a good run when the batteries should be fully charged.

Think I might get the digital tester for all the extra tests it can do.

[ian mk6]

Well, I've ordered the digital tester, should be delivered Friday. Just got a battery for my multimeter and going to go and have a poke around with it and take note of the voltages. The van has done a couple of hours driving tonight and will measure again in the morning.

Can anyone tell me the sequence of operation for the battery relay? I.e. - does it only operate and join the batteries when the key is turned? Does it stay on whilst running or just for starting and is there a hibernation period after the ignition is turned off? Not sure if/when I can measure each battery individually without disconnecting them.

Whilst we are at it, can somebody explain why the front battery causes starting issues when the point of having two batteries is so there is still power in the rear battery to start the van if the front is flat?

[ian mk6]

Had a poke about and the back battery is 12.8v at rest, dropping to 12.6v with the key at 1st position and 10.9v cranking. Front battery shows 12.4, 12.2 key on, , and 10.9 cranking. So looking like it's duff. Couldn't make it repeat the not turning over thing to check what is being drawn when that happens.

Should have got the two year warranty with it from euros. Not sure if there is any manufacturers warranty left on it. Bit pissed off its knackered already.

Think I need to check if there is anything draining the battery, alternator is new and the new tester says it will check the diode pack. I've changed the earth clamps and some of the straps but will give it check over anyway. I do have a cheap Chinese alarm wired in and some of the rear interior lights wires might be worth looking at. Also had a problem with the ambient temp sensor not reading properly, or sometimes at all. Maybe the front battery is affecting that, or it could even be shorting out causing a drain.

Good job I got a new battery for the multimeter eh? Lol

[ian mk6]

Front battery changed, starting problem still there.

[ian mk6]

Back to the original plan tomorrow. Going to cut the power to the glow plugs to check for a short to ground. After that, or maybe first, I will run a jump lead from the engine to the batteries to eliminate bad. earth.

If all checks out then look towards the starter drawing too much current or the battery relay maybe weak or bad contacts. It does make a loud click so think it's moving properly. Other than that, all I can think is a failing module. Hope that's not the case but there are some other weird elec gremlins such as auto wipers acting a bit weird, a strange delay on rear doors unlocking, esp button not working and an error whilst trying to do a pilot learn where it fails saying there is a problem with idle speed, but the idle speed seems fine.

[paulrichardson]

Back to the original plan tomorrow. Going to cut the power to the glow plugs to check for a short to ground. After that, or maybe first, I will run a jump lead from the engine to the batteries to eliminate bad. earth.

If all checks out then look towards the starter drawing too much current or the battery relay maybe weak or bad contacts. It does make a loud click so think it's moving properly. Other than that, all I can think is a failing module. Hope that's not the case but there are some other weird elec gremlins such as auto wipers acting a bit weird, a strange delay on rear doors unlocking, esp button not working and an error whilst trying to do a pilot learn where it fails saying there is a problem with idle speed, but the idle speed seems fine.

Have you managed to find a solution?

I'm interested because I'm having a "similar" issue on my Single Battery MK7.

I had a bit of difficulty starting when I first put it back on the road after a long period of not being used. It was as if the battery was poorly, it would sometimes turn over slowly, then fire, sometimes it would spin OK and sometimes it would click and not do anything.

I was confident it was a duff battery, so I bought a new one, but unfortunately it still does it.

It hasn't completely failed to start, but it is very worrying not knowing for certain what it is going to do.

[knobby1]

Have you managed to find a solution?

I'm interested because I'm having a "similar" issue on my Single Battery MK7.

I had a bit of difficulty starting when I first put it back on the road after a long period of not being used. It was as if the battery was poorly, it would sometimes turn over slowly, then fire, sometimes it would spin OK and sometimes it would click and not do anything.

I was confident it was a duff battery, so I bought a new one, but unfortunately it still does it.

It hasn't completely failed to start, but it is very worrying not knowing for certain what it is going to do.

Possible poor ignition switch or duff starter maybe.

Lord Knobrot

[Jp71]

Had this issue on my Landy, “tired” starting, new starter motor and all is good again