Repair replace an engine scam or not

[tranmx2]

An engine that is more than 6 yrs old or and that has done x miles may not be worth repairing.
2012 2.2.
It seems that the MLS gasket used as a head gasket can be detrimental to the head and block therefore requiring the block and head to be skimmed which may require the valves being reseated and the valve stem lengths reduced as well as the top of the piston being removed.
Is £1500 a sufficient cost for repairing, refurbishing, reconditioning, remanufacturing an engine?

The companies that I have contacted by email or the internet have each requested that I phone them - why phone them?
TPUK advertised an engine with all the bits on = it had already been sold - when was it sold - Did it exist? - I was advised by them to phone and speak to the engine guy.
TPUK advertised a refurbished engine - I asked for details of the work done to the engine - I was advised by them to phone the engine guy.
TPUK want a bank transfer and the old engine sent to them.
One company had added vat to the refund/surcharge/warranty for the old engine. So I'd pay the vat on the surcharge the amount was determined by them - after they had assessed the old engine they'd allow me an amount against the old engine. eg initially 500 plus vat then perhaps 300 plus vat (if vat is applicable to that) on assessment = I loose.

refund/surcharge/warranty - repairing, refurbishing, reconditioning, remanufacturing - words that seem to be used loosely.

Is the request to the making of a phone call a suggestion that a scam is about to be attempted? Phone call no record.

[metalworker0]

The request for a phone call, is that they may feel that typing out a long winded reply (maybe 1 hour or more of their precious £50 an hour time) to someone that may not take up offer is too much trouble- also these people are hands on people not keyboard wizards. and maybe able to tell you what you want in 10 mins over the phone.

Now then ..how old are you if you are young and it seems you would like to get into engine work ..
i suggest you just use engine guys to do the jobs you cannot
There are various machine shops about that are reasonable .

Non main dealer garages etc will tell you who they use and trust. well some of them will, many will tell you these days to f-off - note this never used to be like this, garages used to love there work and talking shop - now they just love money!

Age again - is it worth getting into this ..because in 8 years time IC engines will not be made , the wokes, the gullible public, Councils the BBC plus facebook and twitter and Attenborough ,Greta, Johnson/Carrie and khan will then persecute any who dare pollute the environment, i predict that the uptake of EV will climb highly in the next few years , leaving poor IC engine drivers being ridiculed and taxed to the hilt as the trend continues to change.

all the best.mark

[tranmx2]

The request for a phone call, is that they may feel that typing out a long winded reply (maybe 1 hour or more of their precious £50 an hour time) to someone that may not take up offer is too much trouble- also these people are hands on people not keyboard wizards. and maybe able to tell you what you want in 10 mins over the phone.

You could be right but I doubt if the engine guy at TPUK (they sell things) has the ability to know all there is to know about engines.
The request from me had 3 points. The sales team did/could not answer the questions. They could have passed the email on to the engine guy. Who should have been able to send the answer within 3 mins.


Now then ..how old are you if you are young and it seems you would like to get into engine work .. Is early 70s young enough?

i suggest you just use engine guys to do the jobs you cannot
There are various machine shops about that are reasonable . From recent research it seems that 10 yr old engines are not made to be repaired. The fella at Barum engineers (on youtube) avoids transits.
No machine shops where I live - there used to be one which closed in the late 70s another opened in the early 80s which lasted a few yrs. The garages that I asked to to the job didn't respond.

Non main dealer garages etc will tell you who they use and trust. well some of them will, many will tell you these days to f-off - note this never used to be like this, garages used to love there work and talking shop - now they just love money! That about sums it up.


Age again - is it worth getting into this ..because in 8 years time IC engines will not be made , the wokes, the gullible public, Councils the BBC plus facebook and twitter and Attenborough ,Greta, Johnson/Carrie and khan will then persecute any who dare pollute the environment, i predict that the uptake of EV will climb highly in the next few years , leaving poor IC engine drivers being ridiculed and taxed to the hilt as the trend continues to change.
Seems they recently discovered that CO2 comes from soil. So farmers need to stop ploughing and releasing CO2 into the atmosphere. However if they use an electric tractor it could be okay to keep ploughing.
Maybe in the future there'll be electric horse teams because real horses emit gasses from the front and back.

The thing is how do you get the electric into the electric horses? How is an ocean going ship to be powered? Aeroplanes, big trucks, mining equipment, the TV in a shack in the jungle.

is it worth getting into this - no!

Yep the old bitch that lives near me has an electric car - she can't fix anything - she could not afford to pay the asking price for the house - the price was dropped - after she moved in lots of jobs got done with the trademens vans parked on the road - sometimes 4 vans on the road - she's had 3 new cars since - she can complain - she does not like my van being near her house - I think her road tax is £8 per yr - the van is £636.

Life the universe and everything what is the answer? If the answer is 42 well that's it. What would life be if we really knew the answer. We have not known for about 200000 yrs. Do we really need to know?

[metalworker0]

Well the end seen on hitch hikers guide of that fellow in a bath, tells you all you need to know about what's around the corner.

Use of my bus pass and riding a bicycle is what i got used to when my van was off the road, got so used to it, that when the fuel price went up, i now wonder why i bought a van.

Getting so bad that horses and carts may make a come back, bicycle and hand pulled rickshaws are doing well in London

Are we regressing.

all the best.mark

[bortaf]

Well the end seen on hitch hikers guide of that fellow in a bath, tells you all you need to know about what's around the corner.

Use of my bus pass and riding a bicycle is what i got used to when my van was off the road, got so used to it, that when the fuel price went up, i now wonder why i bought a van.

Getting so bad that horses and carts may make a come back, bicycle and hand pulled rickshaws are doing well in London

Are we regressing.

all the best.mark

i hope not ! a horse puts out more CO2 than most cars

[frosty125]

Had an engine from Transit Tech Hull. Quick and easy to deal with, not many miles on it yet but seems to be good.

[tranmx2]

Thank you for the reply re' Transit Tech Hull.
Called them and they are to send an email.

I have contacted several companies by email or via the web page.
Some have replied but most have not.
One sent a quote which was for a 2.2 RWD E5 engine. No info' re which one.

On a list of codes that I have.
There are 4 2.2 100 HP engines with different codes DRFA, DRFB, DRRA, DRRB.
The 2.2 engine can be 100, 125,155 HP the codes are different for the 125 and 155 engines and there are more codes for the FWD.

Question: How do you get 155 HP from the an engine that is also 100 HP where both are 2.2 ltrs ?

The two persons at two different companies that I spoke to today did not seem to know about the Ford engine codes.

[knobby1]

Thank you for the reply re' Transit Tech Hull.
Called them and they are to send an email.

I have contacted several companies by email or via the web page.
Some have replied but most have not.
One sent a quote which was for a 2.2 RWD E5 engine. No info' re which one.

On a list of codes that I have.
There are 4 2.2 100 HP engines with different codes DRFA, DRFB, DRRA, DRRB.
The 2.2 engine can be 100, 125,155 HP the codes are different for the 125 and 155 engines and there are more codes for the FWD.

Question: How do you get 155 HP from the an engine that is also 100 HP where both are 2.2 ltrs ?

The two persons at two different companies that I spoke to today did not seem to know about the Ford engine codes.

All the Euro-5 engines are essentially the same, it's basically the PCM mapping which determines the hp/ps rating.

Euro-5 engines come in 100, 125, 135, 140 & 155ps ratings.

Mk7 Euro-4 2.2 has 85, 110, 115, 130 & 140ps...all essentially the same engine other than injector and turbo differences.

Mk7 2.4 has 100, 115 & 140...All essentially the same engine other than injector and turbo differences.

The old Mk6 2.4 engine has 75, 90, 115, 120, 125 & 135ps...all essentially the same engine other than fuel system, injector and turbo differences.

The Mk8 2.0L Panther engine can be up to 170ps..!

There are other minor differences between some of them but nothing major that I'm aware of.

Lord Knobrot

[tranmx2]

Thank you for your reply.
All the Euro-5 engines are essentially the same, it's basically the PCM mapping which determines the hp/ps rating.
All 2.2 ltr with 100 to 155 HP produced by changing only the injector timing and the amount of fuel injected. Is changing the timing of injection and the amount of fuel injected the only two things that can be changed by the PCM to alter the power output of the engine?

In the 70s the power output of an engine could be changed by fitting a different camshaft, a different carburettor, changing the spark timing, fitting a different spark plug, a different piston, a different cylinder head, a different thickness of head gasket, different valves, changing the cylinder bore ID, changing the shape of the inlet/exhaust system. Tuning the engine with whatever was fitted/changed. If increasing the HP the crankshaft etc would likely need to be larger/stronger.

Can a modern engine which is mechanically the same have its HP increased by 50 % by only altering the injection timing and amount of fuel injected?

The info' of the 4 RWD 100 HP engines in the code list is the same. There are 4 100 HP engines with different codes for each one however the info' is the same.

Why have the various codes?
Why are there 3 thicknesses of head gaskets, 1.00 mm, 1.2mm, 1.5mm?

The 100 HP engine from my van has the 3 hole/notch head gasket which is 1.5mm (0.047") thick.
Is it the original fitted gasket or was the head skimmed then a thicker gasket fitted to maintain the clearance between the bottom of the valve and the top of the piston?
Are the 3 gasket thicknesses used to change the compression ratio and therefore the HP?

I have spoken to 3 engine recon'/reman' companies.
Their responses have caused more questions to be asked or they have not responded with answers to questions asked.
One told me that the recon' engine would be sent to a hub in a city. I'd need to arrange collection - no address of the hub was given.

If I receive an engine that is not DRRB code does it mean that the PCM shall need to be reconfigured for the code of the engine that is sent?

[knobby1]

Thank you for your reply.
All the Euro-5 engines are essentially the same, it's basically the PCM mapping which determines the hp/ps rating.
All 2.2 ltr with 100 to 155 HP produced by changing only the injector timing and the amount of fuel injected. Is changing the timing of injection and the amount of fuel injected the only two things that can be changed by the PCM to alter the power output of the engine?

In the 70s the power output of an engine could be changed by fitting a different camshaft, a different carburettor, changing the spark timing, fitting a different spark plug, a different piston, a different cylinder head, a different thickness of head gasket, different valves, changing the cylinder bore ID, changing the shape of the inlet/exhaust system. Tuning the engine with whatever was fitted/changed. If increasing the HP the crankshaft etc would likely need to be larger/stronger.

Can a modern engine which is mechanically the same have its HP increased by 50 % by only altering the injection timing and amount of fuel injected?

The info' of the 4 RWD 100 HP engines in the code list is the same. There are 4 100 HP engines with different codes for each one however the info' is the same.

Why have the various codes?
Why are there 3 thicknesses of head gaskets, 1.00 mm, 1.2mm, 1.5mm?

The 100 HP engine from my van has the 3 hole/notch head gasket which is 1.5mm (0.047") thick.
Is it the original fitted gasket or was the head skimmed then a thicker gasket fitted to maintain the clearance between the bottom of the valve and the top of the piston?
Are the 3 gasket thicknesses used to change the compression ratio and therefore the HP?

I have spoken to 3 engine recon'/reman' companies.
Their responses have caused more questions to be asked or they have not responded with answers to questions asked.
One told me that the recon' engine would be sent to a hub in a city. I'd need to arrange collection - no address of the hub was given.

If I receive an engine that is not DRRB code does it mean that the PCM shall need to be reconfigured for the code of the engine that is sent?

Turbo boost pressure and fuel timing/amount is the primary way of altering the output of a Transit internal combustion engine.

The Mk6/7 2.4 & 2.0/2.2 engines came in 75ps up to 140ps, that's the best part of 90% increase, (my 2.4 has been remapped to ~170), but they were all essentially the same engine..... turbos, boost pressures and fuel injection were the main differences between them.

There are three different head gaskets because no two engines are identical, different piston heights/deck heights will determine which gasket is used. You could have three "so called identical" PS engines with three different thickness head gaskets fitted from the factory, machining tolerances can vary enough on the same engine to make different gaskets a requirement.

Lord Knobrot

[tranmx2]

Turbo boost pressure and fuel timing/amount is the primary way of altering the output of a Transit internal combustion engine.

The Mk6/7 2.4 & 2.0/2.2 engines came in 75ps up to 140ps, that's the best part of 90% increase, (my 2.4 has been remapped to ~170), but they were all essentially the same engine..... turbos, boost pressures and fuel injection were the main differences between them.

There are three different head gaskets because no two engines are identical, different piston heights/deck heights will determine which gasket is used. You could have three "so called identical" PS engines with three different thickness head gaskets fitted from the factory, machining tolerances can vary enough on the same engine to make different gaskets a requirement.

Thanks for the reply.
Machined parts are made to tolerances and when fitted can have different results - as you say the head gaskets likely allow for some of the differences.
I can appreciate that an engine which is mechanically the same as other engines could have a different power output than other similar engines.
I find it difficult to accept that the HP can be changed by changing the fuel amount, injection timing, and inlet pressure.
I can appreciate that changing those 3 could influence the HP of the engine by a small amount.
However by 50% and as you say by 90% seems impossible (with what I know of engines).
From what I remember of it the mechanical blowers/compressors and exhaust gas driven compressor turbines kept the air pressure at the inlet valve to above ambient pressure.
Which at higher rpm caused/allowed/sufficient/more air into the combustion chamber. An engine using ambient air pressure could not take in sufficient air for combustion at higher rpm.

So it seems that the engine code (the codes being different but the info' the same for each code) has no meaning when it comes to which 2.2 engine is fitted.
Any 2.2 100 HP engine with the codes: DRFA, DRFB, DRRA, DRRB could be used without altering the PCM. (the PCM setting determines the HP).
Could explain why the persons at the recon' companies I have spoken to to not seem to know about the codes yet recon' reman' engines of 2.2 are advertised with codes or one code.
Perhaps the recon'/reman' engine has that code on it - which my original engine does on the rhs near the gearbox with the engine number. ( A code and number that has been put on using a center punch).

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272499711644 ... gKfLvD_BwE
Up for sale is a complete Remanufactured Engine less outer ancillaries for the Ford Transit.

It is a 2.2 TDCI RWD Engine which will fit the vehicles above from 2011 Onwards

Their are various engine codes for this engine -

CVRB/CYFA/CYFB/CVRA/CYRA/CYRB/DRRB/DRRA/DRFB/DRFA

DRRB/DRRA/DRFB/DRFA 100 HP.
/CYFA/CYFB//CYRA/CYRB 125 HP
CVRB/CVRA/ 155 HP.
So the 2.2 engine has different codes which seem to relate to the HP.
If you get a recon' engine that is not the same HP as the one taken out then does the PCM need to be changed/reset?

[knobby1]

I work on aviation turbine engines for a living and fuel/boost pressures can certainly make a huge difference in performance.

I also crew for a Top Fuel Dragster team. The engine is essentially a 500ci two valve, pushrod V8 engine loosely based on the Chrysler Hemi V8 engine, they made about 300hp in stock trim, a Top Fuel engine with a high boost blower and 85% nitro methane fuel transform it into a 10,000hp+ fire breathing monster. Take the blower and nitro fuel away, run it on normal fuel with no boost and it would return it to a placid 300hp engine again, so we're looking at over 1000% increase in performance just through boost and fuel changes...so yes, fuel type and quantity....and boost pressures can make a huge difference.

If you throw more fuel and higher boost pressures at a basic Transit engine, you could easily get 200+hp out of it, how long it would last doing that is a different question.

Lord Knobrot

[tranmx2]

Thank you for the reply.
Sounds like a very interesting job and hobby.
Some 15 yrs ago gas turbines were installed in one of the electric power stations taking over from the diesel 4 stroke engines
The realm of dragsters never interested me - did read about what they did to engines now and then and what rally car people did to get more gee gees.
At the time it was mini vans and motorbikes and how to get a bike into a mini van.
Nearest I have been to a turbine was a fire pump which had a handle to wind it up - open a valve and whoosh it fired up. That was in the late 60s they were a magical thing.
Myself and others were mesmerised by it. Nothing like a 4 stroke. A small thing with magic whoosh.

Have gone ahead with getting another engine from the UK which is going to cost more than £3000.
Getting it from Hayes who have several good reviews they are more expensive than other companies.
I shall not know if I have got a good company/engine till later.
The experience has been one of ask a question - don't get an answer. Get an answer to a question not asked. Get an answer that half answers the question. Get an answer that half answers a question that was not asked.
No response. Told to telephone them.
Like communicating with government. If communicating includes reciprocation and sense then it was not communication.

[andypdq]

I work on aviation turbine engines for a living and fuel/boost pressures can certainly make a huge difference in performance.

I also crew for a Top Fuel Dragster team. The engine is essentially a 500ci two valve, pushrod V8 engine loosely based on the Chrysler Hemi V8 engine, they made about 300hp in stock trim, a Top Fuel engine with a high boost blower and 85% nitro methane fuel transform it into a 10,000hp+ fire breathing monster. Take the blower and nitro fuel away, run it on normal fuel with no boost and it would return it to a placid 300hp engine again, so we're looking at over 1000% increase in performance just through boost and fuel changes...so yes, fuel type and quantity....and boost pressures can make a huge difference.

If you throw more fuel and higher boost pressures at a basic Transit engine, you could easily get 200+hp out of it, how long it would last doing that is a different question.

Lord Knobrot

Do the dragsters still use magnetos?

[knobby1]

Do the dragsters still use magnetos?

Yes, they still use twin 44amp magnetos, two spark plugs per cylinder. That's the equivalent of an arc welder in each cylinder. Ignition timing is close to 60 degrees BTDC, but is varied down and back up as the car goes down the track.

They also have 5 or 6 fuel injectors at close to 600psi...per cylinder, imagine a 600psi shower head...in each cylinder

Lord Knobrot