Galloping idle and vibration, failing DMF?

[samc1992]

In the last few weeks I've been doing some work on the van to sort out some rough running issues. So far I've done:

Injector seals, cut new seats and new rocker cover
Cleaned MAP sensor
Cleaned camshaft position sensor (covered in stuff, looked much fresher when going back in)
Replaced fuel filter housing with second-hand from breaker yard, there was air in the fuel system so that seemed like a good place to start

Since doing all that, the engine definitely sounds a lot sweeter and isn't wobbling about as much as it did before. However, it still sounds a little uneven when I stop at a set of traffic lights and press the clutch in, a bit like a galloping sound, and the cab wobbles a little. If I press the clutch in, rev the engine a little, and then let it settle back down to idle, the wobble and galloping starts, and then I bring the clutch back up and it disappears. It also vibrates a bit at low revs and when going into reverse. No horrible banging, rattle, or harsh knocking sounds, just the subtle galloping until the clutch is brought up.

It seems to me like that would be the flywheel? Van has 160k on the clock so it wouldn't be surprising. Clutch doesn't slip but I would obviously replace both at the same time.

I would also like to check the crankshaft position sensor but I haven't attempted that because getting to it is a pain in the arse, and because information seems very mixed about how to actually replace it and set the "air gap" correctly, I'm not sure how to approach that. If anyone has more conclusive advice I would appreciate it.

Thanks all

[DanMK7uk]

What machine do you have ?

Euro 4 or 5 ?

SCV possibly/ run of learns if euro 4 perhaps.

[samc1992]

What machine do you have ?

Euro 4 or 5 ?

SCV possibly/ run of learns if euro 4 perhaps.

Sorry should have mentioned: Transit MK7 11-plate Euro 4 2.2 FWD. Don't have Forscan so can't do anything with that yet, but it was running okay after doing the injector seals and what-not. The issue did seem to get a bit worse after cleaning the camshaft position sensor but I don't know if it's related. Just for the avoidance of doubt, it's not hunting, and the engine itself seems to be running fine, so I'm not sure it is the SCV.

[metalworker0]

i remember reading about how to test a DMF - whilst reversing uphill

and rather than type it all out, i see it explained on google AI, so here it is

Reversing uphill can be a good way to test the health of a dual-mass flywheel (DMF) due to the increased load it places on the system. If the DMF is failing, you might experience juddering or vibration when reversing up an incline.

Here's a more detailed explanation:

Why Reversing Uphill Tests the DMF:

Increased Load:
Reversing uphill puts more strain on the DMF than reversing on a level surface or driving forward.

Juddering/Vibration:
A failing DMF can cause the car to shudder or vibrate, particularly when reversing uphill. This is because the DMF is responsible for absorbing vibrations and shocks from the engine and transmission.

Potential for Damage:
If a DMF is severely damaged, it can eventually disintegrate, potentially damaging the bell housing and gearbox.


How to Test the DMF:

Find a Hill: Locate a moderate to steep incline where you can safely reverse.
Engage Reverse: Ensure the car is in reverse gear.
Apply Clutch: Gently engage the clutch, feeling for the "bite point".
Observe/Listen: Pay close attention to any vibrations, juddering, or unusual noises coming from the car as you slowly release the clutch and start to reverse.
Note the Behavior: If you experience excessive vibration or juddering, especially when reversing uphill, it could indicate a failing DMF.


Important Considerations:
Other Potential Causes:
Juddering when reversing uphill could also be caused by other issues, such as a slipping clutch or worn engine mounts.

Professional Diagnosis:
If you suspect a DMF problem, it's best to have it professionally diagnosed by a qualified mechanic. They can perform more in-depth tests and inspections.


Safety:
Always prioritize safety when testing your vehicle. Ensure you have a clear area and are aware of your surroundings.


all the best.mark

[DanMK7uk]

What machine do you have ?

Euro 4 or 5 ?

SCV possibly/ run of learns if euro 4 perhaps.

Sorry should have mentioned: Transit MK7 11-plate Euro 4 2.2 FWD. Don't have Forscan so can't do anything with that yet, but it was running okay after doing the injector seals and what-not. The issue did seem to get a bit worse after cleaning the camshaft position sensor but I don't know if it's related. Just for the avoidance of doubt, it's not hunting, and the engine itself seems to be running fine, so I'm not sure it is the SCV.

Right o mate, sorry i was speed reading

[samc1992]

What machine do you have ?

Euro 4 or 5 ?

SCV possibly/ run of learns if euro 4 perhaps.

Sorry should have mentioned: Transit MK7 11-plate Euro 4 2.2 FWD. Don't have Forscan so can't do anything with that yet, but it was running okay after doing the injector seals and what-not. The issue did seem to get a bit worse after cleaning the camshaft position sensor but I don't know if it's related. Just for the avoidance of doubt, it's not hunting, and the engine itself seems to be running fine, so I'm not sure it is the SCV.

Right o mate, sorry i was speed reading

You're all good, I appreciate the help. It probably could do with a run of the learns to be honest, I just don't have the gear yet, need to buy it but £££££££

[samc1992]

i remember reading about how to test a DMF - whilst reversing uphill

and rather than type it all out, i see it explained on google AI, so here it is

Reversing uphill can be a good way to test the health of a dual-mass flywheel (DMF) due to the increased load it places on the system. If the DMF is failing, you might experience juddering or vibration when reversing up an incline.

Here's a more detailed explanation:

Why Reversing Uphill Tests the DMF:

Increased Load:
Reversing uphill puts more strain on the DMF than reversing on a level surface or driving forward.

Juddering/Vibration:
A failing DMF can cause the car to shudder or vibrate, particularly when reversing uphill. This is because the DMF is responsible for absorbing vibrations and shocks from the engine and transmission.

Potential for Damage:
If a DMF is severely damaged, it can eventually disintegrate, potentially damaging the bell housing and gearbox.


How to Test the DMF:

Find a Hill: Locate a moderate to steep incline where you can safely reverse.
Engage Reverse: Ensure the car is in reverse gear.
Apply Clutch: Gently engage the clutch, feeling for the "bite point".
Observe/Listen: Pay close attention to any vibrations, juddering, or unusual noises coming from the car as you slowly release the clutch and start to reverse.
Note the Behavior: If you experience excessive vibration or juddering, especially when reversing uphill, it could indicate a failing DMF.


Important Considerations:
Other Potential Causes:
Juddering when reversing uphill could also be caused by other issues, such as a slipping clutch or worn engine mounts.

Professional Diagnosis:
If you suspect a DMF problem, it's best to have it professionally diagnosed by a qualified mechanic. They can perform more in-depth tests and inspections.


Safety:
Always prioritize safety when testing your vehicle. Ensure you have a clear area and are aware of your surroundings.


all the best.mark

Thanks for that, it's definitely vibrating a bit more going into reverse when not on a hill, so it's worth a check. I'll also check crank pulley to see if that's wobbling about.

[knobby1]

It probably could do with a run of the learns to be honest, I just don't have the gear yet, need to buy it but £££££££

Forscan is "free" to download onto a windows lappy and the cable is cheap enough.

Lord Knobrot

[samc1992]

It probably could do with a run of the learns to be honest, I just don't have the gear yet, need to buy it but £££££££

Forscan is "free" to download onto a windows lappy and the cable is cheap enough.

Lord Knobrot

I hear you. I'm not a rich man after this endeavour to own a van though. The recommended cable is £90 here, £25 for the VLinker. Do you have any experience with the VLinker? Thanks

[knobby1]

It probably could do with a run of the learns to be honest, I just don't have the gear yet, need to buy it but £££££££

Forscan is "free" to download onto a windows lappy and the cable is cheap enough.

Lord Knobrot

I hear you. I'm not a rich man after this endeavour to own a van though. The recommended cable is £90 here, £25 for the VLinker. Do you have any experience with the VLinker? Thanks

Vlinker works fine and is recommended by Forscan.

https://forscan.org/download.html

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B094Z7PBLS

OBD-Link-EX is also recommended by Forscan.

https://www.obdlink.com/products/obdlin ... ef=forscan

Neither of them are 90quid though.

Lord Knobrot

[samc1992]

I've ordered the VLinker so I should be able to use Forscan by this weekend, I'll try to run the "learns" and see what happens. If the learns fail, does this ground the van or can it still be driven?

This problem is really bothering the piss out of me, I took the van for a test drive yesterday to figure this out. The shake/wobble and uneven idle is definitely only there when the clutch is fully down. When the clutch is up, it goes away. The crank pulley isn't wobbling about either, spinning straight. Is there anything else I can do to narrow this down?

[DanMK7uk]

Cant think of much else myself..

Does your van have the pcm anti stall update ?

Test by in 1st clutch slowly up, handbrake on see if revs rise to 1100 approximately

Just wondering if it could be the anti stall iv known vans to act funny when clutch is in with this on…

[samc1992]

Cant think of much else myself..

Does your van have the pcm anti stall update ?

Test by in 1st clutch slowly up, handbrake on see if revs rise to 1100 approximately

Just wondering if it could be the anti stall iv known vans to act funny when clutch is in with this on…

Yes it has the anti-stall, that's one of the first things I started googling after buying the van and decided it wasn't a PRV/SCV even though I was a bit worried. I'm wondering if this is caused by the injector leak off o-rings not sealing properly and causing low fuel pressure, leading to a lumpy idle. I used the o-rings from the kit when I did the injector seals. I didn't use the bolts, those were ford genuine, but the rocker cover was from the kit. To be fair that's held up pretty well, but the o-rings looked a bit crap.

Only reason I didn't use genuine at the time was the dealer misinformed me that they were £50 each. They must have meant the rubber gaskets for the cover. Bought the o-rings today for 96 pence each. Will swap them out and see if that changes anything.

[DanMK7uk]

On our euro 4 machines, unhappy leak off o rings (green little ones) would result in air ingress and hard starting / fuel filter emptying overnight. The low pressure side is under a vacuum, so air can draw in but fuel wont leak out.

If your starting easily id suggest they are likely ok… any obvious air in the clear pipe from filter housing to pump ?

[samc1992]

On our euro 4 machines, unhappy leak off o rings (green little ones) would result in air ingress and hard starting / fuel filter emptying overnight. The low pressure side is under a vacuum, so air can draw in but fuel wont leak out.

If your starting easily id suggest they are likely ok… any obvious air in the clear pipe from filter housing to pump ?

I've replaced the o-rings now and drove up and down the motorway for about an hour to run it in, no noticeable change to the shaking/lumpy idle problem when the clutch is pressed, but it feels better having genuine o-rings in there rather than the cheap one's.

I've always had a big air bubble in the pipe from the filter housing to the pump. The second-hand housing that I fitted yesterday might be better, but I haven't had a chance to really diagnose any issues with it, the same pipe seems to now have a tiny pin-head sized air bubble in it, rather than the last one which was a few inches in size, so maybe now it's doing a better job. I've always known that there's air in the fuel system but I've never been able to pinpoint the problem, I've just been bleeding it with a bulb whenever the fuel ran back to the tank too much, which is why I bought the fuel filter housing.

Going to attempt a "learns" on Saturday, do you know if there's a problem using the van if it fails, is it grounded if that happens? Bit anxious about it. Thanks.