Engine coding lost - second time - causes?

[Thunderbox]

Y-reg 2001 Transit 350 LWB TD 2.4 Duratorque (75ps) (ex-Jarvis crewcab wagon)

Re-occurrence of this thread:

http://fordtransit.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=74698

Mobile locksmith re-sets engine codes, and transit starts and runs normally.

Parked van last night, switched off. This morning - aaaaaarrrrgghhh! - same problem. Immobiliser light on clock flashes continuously when key is turned in ignition, and van will turn over but not fire.

It must be happening during engine switch off, or somehow while the van is static and not running. Clearly the diesel pump and other electronic components are still working - or they would not have been fixable by the locksmith. Anyone have any idea what can be causing the codes to corrupt like this?

No way I can afford to have a main dealer electrician look at it, or even the recovery charge to start with. Hence I'd like to try and narrow the problem down a bit, and try and fix it myself.

Help!

[Thunderbox]

Any recommended Transit electricians M25 south area?

[jonb1]

hello mate
are they recoding same key as i have had some blue chip keys just loose code for no reason but spares still ok , only a thought but if you have a spare key might be worth trying that as well when it does it again just in case its a faulty chip in key

[martynx]

Yep i'd try a different key or the receiver unit that lives around the ignition lock.

Not known an engine ecu to lose its codes but a used ECU wouldn't be that expensive... its the main engine ECU that hold s the codes.

[Thunderbox]

I have two sets of keys, but neither will start the vehicle - the engine actually turns over, but does not fire.

The mystery is that a locksmith managed to get it started by resetting the codes - only for them to trip out again a day or so later after a couple of stop/start cycles, with the van having not even travelled anywhere. Obviously something is causing the codes to corrupt, most probably when the engine is switched off.

Is this possibly a timing problem? l

[martynx]

On a tddi or tdci mk6 Transit theres no separate immobiliser box , all the P.A.T.S immobiliser coding is handled by main engine ecu so you have

Injection Pump
Receiver that circles the ignition barrel & gets the key codes from the key's transponders
Transponder chip equipped Keys

They all effectively talk to each other very time you try & start it so a fault (or lack of programming) in any of those or their associated wiring will cause a fault & lock you out & in most cases the red led will flash rapidly.

If yours is accepting key coding or system initialization then appearing to lose it , getting the fault code /dtc's read may give a clue as to what part of the system is failing - other wise its a case of ruling out wiring problems then swapping parts & getting the system reprogrammed each time to test.

[Thunderbox]

Thanks.

The immobiliser code after the 60 seconds of flashing seemed to give 2 flashes 3 flashes.

The 2x keys seem to work (when the whole system is working) and the wiring loom and connectors all seem to be dry and undamaged, so I'm probably looking at a replacement /rebuild of the diesel pump assembly and its EDC unit? Is this this EDC unit the same thing as the "Engine ECU"?

[martynx]

I am not up to speed on blink counting as i use a diag tool instead ...

The EDC is the injection pumps own ECU & not the main engine ECU .. the EDC/EDU units are not rebuildable as such - firms that repair them don't touch any of the immo parts , usually just the output transistors that control the one or both of the 2 solenoids. I cant see a fault in that affecting the syncing of the immo..

If the blinking codes don't turn up anything positive then getting the fault codes read may help as they would look at the whole system which may be more useful in pinpointing what to replace or investigate..

Cost wise, the receiver is cheapest at maybe 30 used, an main ecu next at maybe 100 used & your pump would be best reconned properly ( the EDC is always replaced with new when its reconned properly ) at 600 (all plus fitting/programming ) so try the cheap stuff 1st

\Was it all alright originally ? have you replaced anything ? & was the injection pump wiring connector removed & checked ?

[Thunderbox]

Martyn,

Its only a hobby wagon, so is fairly clean and light use only. Engine compartment & cabling is pristine. Has run faultlessly to date - especially since you* remapped it two years ago!!

Only recent work was replacement of the brake servo pump in July; 800 miles ago (work done by Sutton & East Surrey Water vehicle depot).





*(it was July 08; maroon hightop crewcab; I jumped out of the cab to open the gate to your yard and broke my ankle on a tree root... LOL. Cracking remap: even though the van is only 75 ps it was pulling 5th easily over the Pyranees.)

[martynx]

Ahhh, yes , i remember its even more surprising on a nice van like that

Any progress on it ?

[Thunderbox]

Ahhh, yes , i remember its even more surprising on a nice van like that

Any progress on it ?

No, the guy who originally got it started hasn't got back in contact, or left any info about what he did.

I really need some way of diagnosing the problem and pinpointing the part that needs replacing/refurbing.

Have you got any jobs coming up that bring you anywhere M25 Junct6?

[martynx]

Just PM me your contact details & i'll pin em in the windscreen & pop in when i am passing next.

[martynx]

Passed by to read the codes earlier - There was a lot of PATS dtc codes present but only the B2139 returned after clearing them all , BUT the fuel injection pump limp & general mafunction codes P1564 & P1664 also are active.. these Bosch VP30 type pumps certainly can give intermittent starting issues as they start to fail but they dont usually "blame " the PATS do they

The B2139 description on IDS said PATS didnt recongnise the PCM identification.... as there's no separate PATS unit, is this refering to a syncing failure with the PATS element of the Injection pumps ECU/EDU ? (& if thats the case what exactly is the RIM ?)

I know its looking like its pump related but if anyone has any other pointers to rule out anything please share

Pic of DTC's before clearing...

(problem - 75 tddi duratorque transit no start)

[apples26]

im pretty sure this is a regular thing-ish, my mate took his eco down to the place in poole and had it sorted for not too much money,

cant rememebr the exacts sorry mate but the ecu can be sorted and its not too expensive max a couple

[winterheating]

Is the RIM the key reader round the ignition barrel

11 - immo control module not connected (wiring, reader coil connection, control module connection etc)
12 - immo control module not working correctly (duff immo module)
13 - key code not received or key programming failed (faulty key or key obscured)
14 - partial key code received (faulty or obscured key)
15 - key not programmed into immo module (reprogram or try different key)
16 - faulty link between immo module and ECU (wiring fault)
21 - less than three keys programmed (program more keys as necessary)
22 - ROM error - no ECU ID stored (duff ECU)
23 - ECU ID mismatch (duff ECU)
31 - code transmission error between immo control unit and ECU (wiring or ECU programming error)
32 - ECU/immo control unit comms - no response from ECU (wiring, immo control module)
33 - comms error (wiring, duff ECU or duff immo control unit)