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1.8 tdci not running and can not find the problem

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1.8 tdci not running and can not find the problem

Postby masterslamma » Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:57 pm

Hi everyone,
i got a 1.8 tdci 90hp from 2003 thats doens not keep running at the moment.

You can only get it started with brake cleaner. Sometimes it builds up fiel pressure sometimes not.

I use forscan and get mainly code p0251 attached is a live scan when it was running as it had fuen pressure.

What it tested and changed by now.

Fuel and airfilter check
Injectors leackback test was fine
Had the car running on a cannister
Checked imv valve but seems to work
Checked crank sensor, seems fine but in the live data its shows error all the time. No clue i ordererd a new one and will change at the weekend
Checked camshaft timing
Changed the o ring on the fuel pump pressure valve, old one was tottaly craked but it did not run better with the new one
Checked for air leaks and hat it running from cannister.


I have no clue anymore what to check further. Next step would be to start changing parts. Crank sensor and the fuel pump would be the first parts.

Can anoyone see something obviusly wrong on the live datas? I still think its strange that the crank sensor has error all the time.
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Re: 1.8 tdci not running and can not find the problem

Postby metalworker0 » Fri Oct 29, 2021 12:31 pm

knowing bugger about the fuel system ..noting no one is answering ..

here's my little bit of help ..as you said "had it running from canister" - presume you mean had it running with a alternative vessel for holding fuel directly -diesel/petrol can etc

That says to me that the problem is in the pipes .
air can get in ..
the pipes suck fuel out of the tank - there is no pump at the tank end.

So here's it is : hope it helps if you have not done it already

i found this on this site about how to tell if air is getting into the system, its from the ford manual

A1: CHECK FOR AIR INGRESS INTO THE FUEL SYSTEM
CAUTION:
CAUTION:The generator must be protected from contamination. Failure to follow this instruction may cause premature failure of the generator
1
Protect the generator with lint-free material to prevent contamination (vehicles with 2.0 L diesel engine).
2
Using a suitable piece of clear plastic pipe, manufacture a pipe that may be installed between the fuel injection pump and the fuel filter return line.
3
Install the clear plastic pipe between the fuel injection pump and the fuel injection pump to fuel filter return line.
4
Start the engine, wait a few minutes and then visually observe the clear plastic pipe for signs of air ingress.
Are any signs of air present in the clear plastic pipe?
Yes
GO to A2. .
No
REMOVE the clear pipe and CONNECT the fuel return line to the fuel injection pump. For additional diagnostics for Fuel Charging and Controls REFER to Section [long list here]

A2: CHECK WHERE AIR IS ENTERING THE SYSTEM
1
Using suitable clean engine oil, apply the oil to each of the fuel supply and fuel return connections, unions and joints in turn and observe the clear pipe for visible signs of air after each oil application.
Did the amount air in the clear plastic pipe decrease when any of the connectors, unions or joints were oiled?
Yes
REPAIR the connector(s) or union(s) in question. Test the system for normal operation.
No
GO to A3. .

A3: CHECK THE FUEL FILTER HOUSING FOR SIGN OF AIR INGRESS
1
Ignition switch in position 0.
2
Disconnect the fuel injection pump return line from the fuel filter and the fuel filter to fuel tank return line.
3
Using a suitable connector, connect the fuel injection pump return line to the fuel filter to fuel tank return line.
4
Start the engine and observe the clear plastic pipe for visible signs of air.
Did the air decrease in the clear plastic pipe?
Yes
Air ingress is at the fuel filter or housing. REPAIR or INSTALL a new fuel filter or housing as necessary. Test the system for normal operation.
No
INSTALL a new fuel level sensor.
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Re: 1.8 tdci not running and can not find the problem

Postby masterslamma » Mon Nov 08, 2021 3:41 pm

Hi,

metalworker thanks for your help, i checked this but did not work. Had the car running from cannister now with clear lines and no air but still did not run.

I now changed the high pressure pump for a reconditioned unit. The old pump had a little play on the inlet shaft. Now with the new pump i get much higher fuel pressure and it its possible to start without start pilot spray. But it runs extremely rough and smokes withe and then stalls after some seconds running.

I now changed the injectors, fuel pump, fuel pressure sensor and crank position sensor.

I have no more idea what could be wrong. Here is another picture from forescan. Its still shows error on the crank position this is the green line on the picturr. Could this maybe be down to the camshaft posion sensor?

I also tried to reset the learned parameters with forscan but this was not possible. I think my old pump was very worn and the parameters might be far away from what would be now right.

Can anybody help me with what i should change next?
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Re: 1.8 tdci not running and can not find the problem

Postby metalworker0 » Mon Nov 08, 2021 6:36 pm

I wouldn't be changing anything at first ..i would double check wiring and connectors..

buy some electrical contact spray cleaner

That there forscan will tell you some sensors etc are faulty ..when the fault could be wiring or dirty connectors.

Other than that - i cant tell you anything ...and cant work out why people who have the knowledge here about all this electronic garbage, cant be bothered to answer ..perhaps they have got fed up ..and expect you to find the answers by searching here ..I don't know.

I had a intermittent fault on my last car in the multi-connector to the ecu......this fault could only really be fixed by replacing the loom or the ecu.

I fixed it by tie wrapping the plug over to one side,...as the tie wrap pulled on it to somewhere it had not been before - fresh connection ...i ran it like that for 12 years.

well i tell a lie - there was a fix for it ..and it involved taking the multipliug apart and wire by wire..taking all the wires out 36 or more - and then under magnification ..and working on each one to close up the tubes individually so making a better tighter contact.- hoping :lol: you put them all back in the same order -
This is what happens to old electronics - subjected to damp, heat and vibration and years.

so get that tooth brush out and the contract cleaner first.

all the best..mark
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Re: 1.8 tdci not running and can not find the problem

Postby masterslamma » Tue Nov 09, 2021 7:18 pm

Hi,

metalworker, yes i had similar electric gremmlins as you mentioned in the past. They are horrible to find.

Today i checked again with forscan and realised, that is have 1800bar at 1000rpm what seemd extrem high to me.

So i removed the imv from the freh recondined high pressure pump to have it tested outside of the car. And it did nothing.

I then installed the the imv from my old pump and the car started nice and seemed to idle well for a few minutes.

I took it for a short drive, but it was smoking very strong withe and ran a bit rough. After a few minuted driving it started to ran even worse and vibrated and of course still smoked white. Then i got glow light woth p0251 code. Thats the code you always get when something with the fuel system is wrong and it could be anything with this code.

I know, that the injector on cylinder 4 has a wrong coding. Cylinder 1-3 are coded right but i do not have the code from #4, so i just used the same code as from #3. I know this is not good.

Could it be possible, that this wrong injector cldong leads to that heavy driving problems? The injector corrections in forscan are also pretty high at max 3.7 on one injector.
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Re: 1.8 tdci not running and can not find the problem

Postby masterslamma » Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:14 pm

Hi,

i am still working on this.

Car starts but stalls immediately, no fault codes appear.

Here is a picture from forscan. There are two things that seem dtange to me, first the crankshaft sensor is changing between synced, errod and synching. I would have thought it should show synched all the time when engine is running. But i get a good rpm signal all the time. Changed crankshaft and camshaft sensor but did not help.

Second, the fuel pressure is 44600kpa and should be 30000kpa, maybe thats why the pcm shuts the engine off.

Anyone can help me?
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Re: 1.8 tdci not running and can not find the problem

Postby Altransit » Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:19 pm

Have you checked the timing?
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Re: 1.8 tdci not running and can not find the problem

Postby masterslamma » Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:57 pm

Yes i checked the timing twice with the crankshaft tool, its spot on.
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Re: 1.8 tdci not running and can not find the problem

Postby Kenton » Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:37 pm

Fuel pump inlet metering valve? :?:
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Re: 1.8 tdci not running and can not find the problem

Postby masterslamma » Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:54 pm

Imv might be possible, got a new one ordered today, arrives on saturday.

I live in germany but study in UK this connect is a camping van, i wanted to drive to uk already 3 weeks ago. Its driving me crazy.
This summer i drove till georgia with the connect and next year i want to drive it till kirgistan. It just has to work again.
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Re: 1.8 tdci not running and can not find the problem

Postby Kenton » Thu Nov 25, 2021 7:52 pm

masterslamma wrote:Imv might be possible, got a new one ordered today, arrives on saturday.

I live in germany but study in UK this connect is a camping van, i wanted to drive to uk already 3 weeks ago. Its driving me crazy.
This summer i drove till georgia with the connect and next year i want to drive it till kirgistan. It just has to work again.

Just sounds like it has been over fueling. This is a relatively cheap part, and worth a go. Hope you sort it out and continue your adventures! Sounds amazing mate 8)
2005 T230 LX 90 TDCi LWB
ST 17" alloys Avon ZV7
Focus ST170 seats
Fiesta Zetec S/W & G/K
Mondeo Inner Door handles & vents
Sport spoiler
Bonnet wrap
Side bars
Facelift rear lights
Lined/carpeted
Lowered
Black H/lights
De-Cat
Remapped
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