(MK2) Common water ingress points? (Found a couple already)

[metalworker0]

A faulty evaporator would not cause any excess condensation ....a faulty evaporator would be a leaky evaporator that would not hold pressure ..you would see that when its hooked up to the re-gassing machine.
a faulty evaporator ..would be nothing to do with your problem ..

A fully functioning evaporator would cause condensation to run out of the drain occasionally ........
A faulty leaking evaporator drain pipe is the only thing to look for, as part of your investigation, non of the AC system is suspect ..only the drain ..and it may not be that.

Now you have the carpets up ...get someone to pressure wash your car whilst you observe within .
Also direct water under the car .....to see if its making it way in when going through puddles ....

Direct water into the grill at the top of the bulkhead and window..but low pressure to imitate typical heavy rain.

Water ingress may have happened weeks ago .....the carpets will hold it for weeks at this time of the year without drying out.

Another thing to check out that I've already mentioned is the heater pipes and the matrix ........again would be ideal time to pressure test the coolant system with a pump up coolant pressure tester whilst things like carpet are out of the way ..no more than 15 psi.

NOTE - I don't know if the heater matrix and pipes are part of the box containing the AC system or its separate.

There really isn't anything more to add unless you are walking through a puddle every day before getting into the car.

all the best...mark

[Ripp]

A faulty evaporator would not cause any excess condensation ....a faulty evaporator would be a leaky evaporator that would not hold pressure ..you would see that when its hooked up to the re-gassing machine.
a faulty evaporator ..would be nothing to do with your problem ..

So that's pretty much ruled out then as I had the whole system leak tested with dye and a smoke test a couple weeks ago.

A fully functioning evaporator would cause condensation to run out of the drain occasionally ........
A faulty leaking evaporator drain pipe is the only thing to look for, as part of your investigation, non of the AC system is suspect ..only the drain ..and it may not be that.

I'm pretty confident the drain hose is ok because a visial inspection showed nothing suspect and all of the insulation around it is bone dry. I've not been under the van to poke something up there yet but if it was blocked then surely it would be leaking around the joins under the flooring and again everything in that area is bone dry.

Now you have the carpets up ...get someone to pressure wash your car whilst you observe within .
Also direct water under the car .....to see if its making it way in when going through puddles ....

Flooring is back down now because I need the van useable again but all the insulation and interior around the bulkhead up as high as I could reash is dry on both the passenger and drivers side so i'm pretty confident that the water isn't getting in up high and running down to the floor.

Direct water into the grill at the top of the bulkhead and window..but low pressure to imitate typical heavy rain.

I did do that a wahile back to wash out any debris but havn't yet done it with the flooring up to visually check for ingress, but as per above all the interior is very dry up high.

Water ingress may have happened weeks ago .....the carpets will hold it for weeks at this time of the year without drying out.

This is what I'm hoping, I bought the van just over 3 months ago IIRC and figured there was something wrong almost right away. I found the leak in the drivers door and repaired it so there is a chance that the moisture that's in there now is residual and just left over from that and is very slowly drying itself up. The leak in the drivers door was because of a crack in the membrane, after seeing the crack I checked the window glass and could see that it isn't OEM and I found a couple of bits of broken glass inside the door so at some point the glass had been broken and replacesd, hence the crack in the membrane. When that happend though is something I don't know, it could have been letting water in for a few years for all i know.

Another thing to check out that I've already mentioned is the heater pipes and the matrix ........again would be ideal time to pressure test the coolant system with a pump up coolant pressure tester whilst things like carpet are out of the way ..no more than 15 psi.

NOTE - I don't know if the heater matrix and pipes are part of the box containing the AC system or its separate.

I marked the coolant header tank a few weeks ago and it's definitely not loosing fluid. I'm not familiar with how to locate and check the heater matrix and it's pipes but while it's having it's condenser replaced i'll ask if they will pressure test the coolant system for me. I don't think this is the cause of the water becasue the water inside the van didn't smell weird or feel sticky like coolant.

[metalworker0]

Another one ..perhaps the last owner drove through a flood and saturated the carpets.

all the best.mark

[Ripp]

Another one ..perhaps the last owner drove through a flood and saturated the carpets.

all the best.mark

lol yeah maybe! The damp patch is in a really localised area though just on one side. You have a point there though maybe I need to dehumidify the van professionally and then see if the moisture reappears so at least I'd know if I'm dealing with ongoing ingress or residual water from previous ingress. Valeting companies often dry cars out after a wet clean so I'll see if I can find someone local who'll dehumidify it.

[metalworker0]

note ..as in the evaporator

Dehumidifiers need a difference in air temperature to work properly
I've found that difference, is the air has to be over 15c , 20C even better.
So, no good plonking the thing in the van at these ambient temperatures we are now experiencing, unless you also heat the van...errmm then it could just as well dry out by leaving the windows open a little at the same time. as the hottest air holds the most moisture ..and will take it out via the places it likes to go to ..which is up ..and through the windows.
So a fan heater on its own is just as good, if you open the windows an inch.
and probably will be done in 5 hours.

all the best.mark

[Ripp]

note ..as in the evaporator

Dehumidifiers need a difference in air temperature to work properly
I've found that difference, is the air has to be over 15c , 20C even better.
So, no good plonking the thing in the van at these ambient temperatures we are now experiencing, unless you also heat the van...errmm then it could just as well dry out by leaving the windows open a little at the same time. as the hottest air holds the most moisture ..and will take it out via the places it likes to go to ..which is up ..and through the windows.
So a fan heater on its own is just as good, if you open the windows an inch.
and probably will be done in 5 hours.

all the best.mark

Ah ok well that makes sense, currently it's pretty much
only being used to commute to work and back every day 20 mins each way so what I'll do for while then while commuting is use the heating as much as I can while also having the windows open a little (as long as it's not raining) and I'll also leave them open while it's parked at work and overnight. I've been leaving them open when parked anyway because after having the heating on and parking it up in the cold condensation builds up pretty quickly and it takes ages to clear whenever I get in the van next and need to go somehere and obviously getting the heat out of the van helps to make the condensation less heavy.

I know it can seem a little counter intuitive to leave the windows open sometimes because sometimes all the air you are letting in can have a high moisture content itself but in this case I reckon there's way more moisture in my footwell than will be in the air that wafts in overnight, letting any moisture in overnight with the windows open is a small price to pay for being able to equalise the temperature while parked.

I guess I should get some wind deflectors then really too so I can keep the windows cracked and not have to worry too much about it getting caught in the rain.

[Ripp]

It's a shame because it's a really nice well specced van:



But it looks like this whenever I park it up:



It would be a real shame to have to sell it because of not being able to find the cause of this one issue.

[metalworker0]

The only cars I've had that had a windscreens like that had a leaky heater matrIx's .......it only has to loose an egg cup full a week to make those results.
and you don't see drips as it evaporates as soon as it comes out.

but you can smell and taste the antifreeze

it will probably drip under a coolant pressure test on a cold engine that Isn't running ..if it is that.

You could try a product called "K-seal" in the coolant, that will fix it for a while, if it's the matrix - think they named K-seal after the Rover K-series engine ..notorious for a slow head gasket failure, lasting weeks, months, then bamm.

all thew best..mark

[Ripp]

The only cars I've had that had a windscreens like that had a leaky heater matrIx's .......it only has to loose an egg cup full a week to make those results.
and you don't see drips as it evaporates as soon as it comes out.

but you can smell and taste the antifreeze

it will probably drip under a coolant pressure test on a cold engine that Isn't running ..if it is that.

You could try a product called "K-seal" in the coolant, that will fix it for a while, if it's the matrix - think they named K-seal after the Rover K-series engine ..notorious for a slow head gasket failure, lasting weeks, months, then bamm.

all thew best..mark

To be fair the camera flash does make it look a little worse but there is a fair amount there. As we know the insulation under the footwell is damp so there's probably a few egg cups worth of water in there for whatever reason. It definitely doesn't smell like coolant, it's not loosing coolant and all the insulation around and under where I think the matrix is is bone dry so for now I'm hoping it isn't that but we'll see, I will get it pressure tested as soon as I can though to confirm.

This is the rear window of an Audi TTS I had a few years ago, the boot floor in that always had water in it. After many many weeks and hours and stripping it back to bare metal in the rear half I found and fixed several fairly big water leaks but no matter what I fixed water always managed to get in somewhere and fill the boot up.

[Ripp]

A minor update on this:

It' hasn't rained here at all since I found the damp area 5 days ago, I also haven't wahed it but it has been below 0°C overnights and there has been a lot of frost and water on the outside of the van as the frost has melted. I've been blasting the heater down in the footwell on max heat on my commutes to work so I wanted to see if the damp has gotten any better or worse. I figured out I can access the damp area and get eyes on that A/C drain pipe without removing the dash lower centre console by simply popping out 2 parts of plastic trim around the drivers door and rolling the floor back (it might be tricky to tuck it back under the centre console but I'll find that out in an hour or so) so that's going to make things much easier from now on because getting that cosole out was not a 5 min job

The insulation and baby powder all around the A/C drain pipe is still very dry as is the insulation leading up to the heater matrix but unfortunately the damp area directly under where the floor mat goes looks & feels about the same a sit did 5 days ago, no better but also no worse. All the areas surrounding the damp area are still dry with dry baby powder confirming. I also can't see any obvious traces in the baby powder leading to the damp area so for now I've mopped and removed as much of the powder as I can as some of it obviusly has moisture in it now.

So I'm still unsure as to whether or not I'm dealing with residual water from the previous leak in the door (pretty sure that's now fixed) or I still have continued water ingress from somewhere so the only way to tell is to try to dry up the area and check on it again at a known point, like after the van hasn't seen any rain or been washed but has had the heaters and A/C running a lot or after it's been driven on wet roads or I've washed it etc. So currently I've got the flooring rolled up, the van running and the heaters on full blast down to the footwell which I'll leave for an hour and see if it's made a noticeable difference to the damp, this may take a few sessions of this but once the damp is gone I'll be able to see if it comes back. If it does come back after the van has had obvious exposure to water from either rain or me washing it I'll keep the floor up, apply fresh powder and soak the van with the pressure washer and see if any traces appear in the powder which would lead back to the ingress point.

It's a shame the floor is such a big massive pain in the ass becuase it would be handy to be able to leave it rolled back while I drive it to work and back for a week to give it a proper airing out but theres no way to safely get it out of the way enough to be able to drive it properly.

Worth noting I can just about get my hand under the floor directly under the drivers seat and I'm pretty sure it's all dry under there so I don't think any water is getting in somewhere in the rear of the van and working its way forward.

[Ripp]

So after 45 mins with the heat on it the damp insulation is almost completely dried up (as far as I can perceive by touching it anyway) so at least I'll now know if it's wet again next weekend or something that I still have investigation work to do. I'll leave it run for the full hour, then I'll switch it off and crack the windows to get ae airflow through it then later on today of needed I'll give it another blast with the heaters before putting the floor back down then pull it up again next weekend and see what's what.

[Ripp]

After a couple of days driving the van in the dry and blasting the AC and heating the floor wasn't any wetter or drier then a couple of days driving in the wet and then pressure washing it and again no wetter or drier. It's currently very slightly damp but this could still be residual from what was getting in through the door.

I did see this though so I'll patch it up anyway.



I'll also lay a load of blue roll under the floor and see if that gives me any indication as to whether I still have water getting in and if so, where from, as blue roll is pretty good at showing water.

[Ripp]

After leaving blue roll under the floor for a week with couple of days drivng on the motorway with a bit of rain this is what I found today:



Notice the area marked in green where the A/C drain pipe is is very dry:


This corner is also dry:



I then replaced the damp blue roll with some fresh dry stuff and blasted the van all over and underneath with my 200bar pressure washer then gave it a full wash and then left a garden sprinkler setup under the van directly under the drivers footwell for an hour and the blue roll remained completely dry.


This weeks thoughts/conclusions/assumptions:

The actual insulation foam on the underside of the carpet/floor was actually pretty dry, so this could possibly mean that the damp on the blue roll was casued by some of the remaining moisture from the door leak and the blue roll has pulled it out of the foam. The fact that the fresh blue roll remained dry after pressure washing does back this theory up.

The area around the A/C drain pipe was again very dry so pretty confident there is no leak there.

Due to the size, shape, total isolation of and location of the damp area I'm pretty sure that water isn't getting in anywhere else and running down and pooling in that area like from the windscreen, bulkhead, heater matrix, roof, cargo area etc etc


So now I've put a fresh layer of blue roll down, then a waterproof membrane (a cut-up Tesco bag for life) then another layer of blue roll then put the floor back down. This should confirm for me whether the water is coming from up above or down below, ie: if the bottom layer of blue roll is damp but the top layer is dry upon next weekends inspection then water is getting in through the metal floor (although I can't see where yet) and if the top layer is damp and the bottom layer is dry then either moisture is still being drawn out of the floor insulation foam or water is getting in from above. The latter is very unlikely IMO becasue the floor itself seems fairly waterproof and I have one of those tray style solid rubber floor mats so there's no way water is somehow getting through that and then through the flooring as well. I also marked out the damp area on the floor itself with marker pen so if there is any damp there next week I can see if the total area is generally getting smaller, if after washing it and driving it in the rain and all that the damp area slowly gets smaller then that would point to the fact there is no longer any water ingress and the damp that I've been seeing recently is just residual and slowly drying up and vanishing.

I'll see what next weekend brings.

[metalworker0]

i don't know what the mk2 is like underneath, but my mk1 in that area is double skinned, it has a cavity directly under where you are saying the water is appearing.
it also has a direct manufactured hole into that cavity ..see where I'm putting screw driver through hole in picture below .note this hole is directly in line with water that comes off the tyres ..
Now supposing water could not escape from that cavity ..then it would build up..and get in through seems. and to seep in ..even when its not been raining ..from the reservoir getting topped up.

The wheel arch liners do not cover this hole ..and hole seems to be there to funnel water into the sills ..to make them rot out quicker..

i always meant to put a small deflector piece of rubber or such hanging in front of it attached to the liner.......you just reminded me ..id forgotten.
worth checking out me thinks
pic showing outer sill removed ..and this hole going into the cavity
download/file.php?id=38997&mode=view

all the best.mark

[Ripp]

i don't know what the mk2 is like underneath, but my mk1 in that area is double skinned, it has a cavity directly under where you are saying the water is appearing.
it also has a direct manufactured hole into that cavity ..see where I'm putting screw driver through hole in picture below .note this hole is directly in line with water that comes off the tyres ..
Now supposing water could not escape from that cavity ..then it would build up..and get in through seems. and to seep in ..even when its not been raining ..from the reservoir getting topped up.

The wheel arch liners do not cover this hole ..and hole seems to be there to funnel water into the sills ..to make them rot out quicker..

i always meant to put a small deflector piece of rubber or such hanging in front of it attached to the liner.......you just reminded me ..id forgotten.
worth checking out me thinks
pic showing outer sill removed ..and this hole going into the cavity
download/file.php?id=38997&mode=view

all the best.mark

Oh that's interesting, thank you. I'll take a look and see if I have a similar hole and if so I'll shove my hose pipe up it and see what happens.