(MK2) Common water ingress points? (Found a couple already)

[metalworker0]

its here ..in case you cant make it where it is ..liner and wing removed in this photo

see arrow

[Ripp]

its here ..in case you cant make it where it is ..liner and wing removed in this photo

see arrow

That's great, thank you.

[metalworker0]

in this picture you can see how the liner just about does not cover the hole and the relationship of the tyre and wheel to it as far as splash spray is concerned.

click twice to expand picture

[Ripp]

in this picture you can see how the liner just about does not cover the hole and the relationship of the tyre and wheel to it as far as splash spray is concerned.

click twice to expand picture

Thanks!

[Ripp]

Another update, I seriously need help now to stop me going insane because from what I can see this water is literally materialising from nowhere!

I peeled back the layers again today after driving in the rain for 3 days to try to narrow down exactly where this water is coming from:

Exibit 01 - Carpet/Flooring rubber - You can see from this photo that the blue tissue above the grey insulation is dry:


Exibit 2 - And the blue tissue beneath the grey insulation is damp:


Exibit 3 - Under the damp layer of tissue is my makeshift waterproof membrane (Tesco bag), the top of this bag is damp as expected becasue there was a layer of damp tissue sat on top of it:


Exibit 4 - Underneath the Tesco bag is bone dry (Definitely was not expecting that!):


For clarification these are the layers (it's a bit confusing becasue the grey insulation does not come all the way back to the drivers seat so it's only kind of half a layer):

Carpet/Rubber Flooring (Top = Dry, Bottom foam = Damp)
Blue Tissue (Damp)
Grey Insulation (Top = Dry, Bottom = Damp)
Blue Tissue (Damp)
Waterproof Membrane (Tesco Bag) (Top = Damp, Bottom = Dry)
Blue Tissue (Dry)
Metal Floor (Dry)

Exibit 1 shows water cannot be coming from above (door seals, windscreen, scuttle drain etc) because the top layer of blue tissue is dry. Also as before the grey insulation is dry all around the bulkhead up past the pedals etc and under the heater matrix so this also rules out water coming in from above.

Exibit 2 shows the damp area is seemingly not coming from anywhere else horizontally as all the tissue around the damp are is dry and also not coming from the AC drain unless somehow the water is coming from there but dries up around that area almost immediately after its travelled past, maybe the heat from the exhaust in the tunnel is keeping that area dry after water has passed over it so I might put some sealent around that drain area anyway tomorrow for good measue and see what I find next weekend.

Exibit 3 & 4 show that the water cannot be coming from below (through the floor, or running across the floor from the cargo area etc) becuase the lowest layer of blue tissue along with the metal floor are dry


So how on Earth is water appearing in the location shown in Exibit 2 without it coming from above or below??!!

There is still the remotest chance that what I'm seeing is still residual water held in the foam on the underside of the runbber flooring from a previous leak is still slowly being drawn out by the blue tissue, I did think this might be the case because last week it was a little damp there but not soaking wet like it was a few weeks ago but we hadn't had much rain recently up until this week so if there is a rain water ingress leak then it wouldn't have showed itself anyway, but then it rained this week for a couple of days and I did get a light misting of condensation one morning after driving in the rain so this could still be a rain water ingress issue but for the life of me I cannot fathom how it is appearing in the middle layer without passing through the top or bottom layer??!! If it was still being drawn out of the foam then there would be damp tissue on the very top layer of blue tissue right underneath the black polystyrene foot rest as the foam sits right on top of that so im now 80/20% in favour of a rain water ingress leak.

HELP lol

[Ripp]

its here ..in case you cant make it where it is ..liner and wing removed in this photo

see arrow

Just to add so far I can't see any holes like this on the MK2, and also the fact that my very bottom layer of blue tissue is dry tells me that the water is not coming from down inside the metal floor anywhere

[metalworker0]

Have you tasted this water ..does it taste sweet....if so, it's from the cooling system

meanwhile
these are ford bulletins on faults from this section of the forum..some are mk1 some mk2 ..it does not say..

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=124877

This all of them !

11/30/09 Waterleaks at the upper windshield
Waterleaks from the upper windshield area with heated windshield, one probable cause is insufficient application of windshield adhesive during production.
To rectify this concern, windshield adhesive should be applied into the gap at the windshield. It is NOT required to install a new windshield.
To enable a smooth adhesive application the grey flat nozzle needs to be reworked

...................................................................................................

9/6/07 Condensation dripping into the front footwell
Dampness in the front footwell the probable cause is incorrect manufacturing tolerances in the joints of the climate control housing components. This allows condensation to escape from the bottom corner of the climate control housing when the air conditioning (A/C) is operating.
To rectify this concern the climate control housing should be removed and sealing strip applied to the gaps in the climate control housing joint area.
Before carrying out the procedure detailed in this bulletin eliminate all other possible causes for water entry into the front footwell (e.g. water entry after passing through a car wash, during very heavy rain or because of a blocked A/C overflow hose on the bulkhead in the engine compartment). Additionally the A/C system should be tested.

..........................................................................................................

9/14/07 Water ingress in the front footwell/interior and in the loadspace
Isolated instances of the following causes of possible water ingress points in the front footwell/interior have been identified:
A. Water ingress via the drain bore in the water trap or via the windshield (left-hand vehicle side):
Cause: Insufficient or intermittent sealer applied in production between the fender apron panel outer reinforcement and the A-pillar/water trap may lead to water entering into the front footwell. To rectify: Seal the affected areas with sealer. Installing a new windshield and a new windshield glass weatherstrip is not necessary. Cause: Water may enter into the front footwell between the windshield and the windshield frame because of insufficient or intermittent sealer applied in production. To rectify: Seal the affected areas with sealer. B. Water ingress via the fender apron panel outer reinforcement (right-hand vehicle side):
Cause: Water can enter the front footwell between the fender apron panel outer reinforcement and the grommet because of insufficient or intermittent sealer applied in production. To rectify: Seal the affected areas with sealer. C. Water ingress via the pollen filter housing:
Cause: Water can enter the front footwell via an excessively large gap between the pollen filter housing and the cowl panel grille as well as certain body joints. To rectify: Seal the affected areas with sealer. D. Water ingress via the liftgate/rear door weatherstrips:
Cause: The adjustment of the right-hand door check arm, a hardened blanking plug on the D-pillar, an incomplete seal at the liftgate hinges or an inadequately-installed door weatherstrip can result in water ingress in the rear section of the loadspace. To rectify: Adjust the door stop, install a new cover plug, correct the position of the rubber seal on the rear door. E. Water ingress via the C-pillar in the area of the sliding door:
Cause: Water can enter the interior between individual body parts of the sliding door guide because of insufficient or intermittent sealer applied in production. To rectify: Seal the body parts of the sliding door guide from the interior using additional sealer. F. Water ingress via the roof rack blanking plugs and the ventilation flaps:
Cause: Water can enter the interior via a deformed blanking plug bore, missing or damaged roof rack blanking plug seals or via the ventilation flaps in the rear section of the vehicle roof. To rectify: Remove the blanking plugs and install new roof rack blanking plug seals. Install new ventilation flaps. G. Water ingress via the sliding door:
Cause: Water can enter the interior via a damaged watershield and an inadequate seal at the upper sliding door guide. To rectify: Install a new watershield and seal the upper sliding door guide with additional sealer. H. Water ingress via the rear side windows:
Cause: Water can enter the interior via an incorrectly-installed rear quarter window glass weatherstrip. To rectify: Correct the installation position of the rear quarter window glass weatherstrip and seal with additional sealer. I. Water ingress via the rear door central high mounted stoplamp:
Cause: The stoplamp opening on the rear cargo door outer sheet metal is out of tolerances causing insufficient seal area.


................................................................................................


3/11/11 Water ingress into the interior; Windnoise from the front door; Upper front door weatherstrip loose or comes adrift on the A-pillar sheet metal
Water ingress into the interior, windnoise from the front door or that the upper front door weatherstrip becomes loose or comes adrift on the A-pillar sheet metal, the probable cause is poor installation of the weatherstrip in conjunction with minor adhesion of the adhesive strip.
To rectify this concern, the affected upper front door weatherstrip should be renewed. To improve the adhesion primer should be applied to the installation area.

.....................................................................................................


3/9/05 Water entering into the interior; Noises coming from the area of the load space roof opening panel
There have been various concerns where water enters into the interior and over noises coming from the area of the load space roof opening panel:
1. Water entering from the D-pillar upper sheet metal connection points into the interior
Cause: Gap between flanges because of insufficient sealant applied in production. To rectify: Seal the affected areas with clinched flange sealer. 2. Water entering into the interior between the weatherstrips of the load space roof opening panel and the body
Cause: Water can enter the interior because the seal gap is too large. To rectify: Loosen the tail roof opening panel striker screws and move the load space roof opening panel striker upwards to decrease seal gap. 3. Water entering from the sheet metal connection points of the drain channel into the interior.
Cause: Insufficient sealant applied in production. To rectify: Seal the affected areas with clinched flange sealer. 4. Water entering via the weatherstrip on the rear doors into the interior
Cause: Water entering the rear part of the loading space may be caused by an incorrectly installed weatherstrip on one or both of the rear doors. To rectify: Realign the flange angels. 5. Water entering into the interior from the load space roof opening panel watherstrip
Cause: Inadequate sealing of weatherstrip. To rectify: Apply clinched flange sealer to the inside of the weatherstrip. 6. Water entering into the interior from the load space roof opening panel weatherstrip
Cause: Inadequate sealing of weatherstrip. To rectify: Apply clinched flange sealer to the end of the weatherstrip carrier. 7. Water entering the rear part of the loading space from under the flap of the weatherstrip carrier
Cause: Inadequate sealing of weatherstrip. To rectify: Apply clinched flange sealer to the flap. 8. Noises from the load space roof opening panel (only vehicles build up to 05.10.2004 (build code 4Y))
Cause: Load space roof opening panel hinges not robust enough. To rectify: Install new load space roof opening panel hinges. Vehicles built from 06.10.2004 (build code 4Y) onwards have already the new hinges installed.

..................................................................................................

all the best.mark

[Ripp]

Have you tasted this water ..does it taste sweet....if so, it's from the cooling system

meanwhile
these are ford bulletins on faults from this section of the forum..some are mk1 some mk2 ..it does not say..

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=124877

This all of them !

11/30/09 Waterleaks at the upper windshield
Waterleaks from the upper windshield area with heated windshield, one probable cause is insufficient application of windshield adhesive during production.
To rectify this concern, windshield adhesive should be applied into the gap at the windshield. It is NOT required to install a new windshield.
To enable a smooth adhesive application the grey flat nozzle needs to be reworked

...................................................................................................

9/6/07 Condensation dripping into the front footwell
Dampness in the front footwell the probable cause is incorrect manufacturing tolerances in the joints of the climate control housing components. This allows condensation to escape from the bottom corner of the climate control housing when the air conditioning (A/C) is operating.
To rectify this concern the climate control housing should be removed and sealing strip applied to the gaps in the climate control housing joint area.
Before carrying out the procedure detailed in this bulletin eliminate all other possible causes for water entry into the front footwell (e.g. water entry after passing through a car wash, during very heavy rain or because of a blocked A/C overflow hose on the bulkhead in the engine compartment). Additionally the A/C system should be tested.

..........................................................................................................

9/14/07 Water ingress in the front footwell/interior and in the loadspace
Isolated instances of the following causes of possible water ingress points in the front footwell/interior have been identified:
A. Water ingress via the drain bore in the water trap or via the windshield (left-hand vehicle side):
Cause: Insufficient or intermittent sealer applied in production between the fender apron panel outer reinforcement and the A-pillar/water trap may lead to water entering into the front footwell. To rectify: Seal the affected areas with sealer. Installing a new windshield and a new windshield glass weatherstrip is not necessary. Cause: Water may enter into the front footwell between the windshield and the windshield frame because of insufficient or intermittent sealer applied in production. To rectify: Seal the affected areas with sealer. B. Water ingress via the fender apron panel outer reinforcement (right-hand vehicle side):
Cause: Water can enter the front footwell between the fender apron panel outer reinforcement and the grommet because of insufficient or intermittent sealer applied in production. To rectify: Seal the affected areas with sealer. C. Water ingress via the pollen filter housing:
Cause: Water can enter the front footwell via an excessively large gap between the pollen filter housing and the cowl panel grille as well as certain body joints. To rectify: Seal the affected areas with sealer. D. Water ingress via the liftgate/rear door weatherstrips:
Cause: The adjustment of the right-hand door check arm, a hardened blanking plug on the D-pillar, an incomplete seal at the liftgate hinges or an inadequately-installed door weatherstrip can result in water ingress in the rear section of the loadspace. To rectify: Adjust the door stop, install a new cover plug, correct the position of the rubber seal on the rear door. E. Water ingress via the C-pillar in the area of the sliding door:
Cause: Water can enter the interior between individual body parts of the sliding door guide because of insufficient or intermittent sealer applied in production. To rectify: Seal the body parts of the sliding door guide from the interior using additional sealer. F. Water ingress via the roof rack blanking plugs and the ventilation flaps:
Cause: Water can enter the interior via a deformed blanking plug bore, missing or damaged roof rack blanking plug seals or via the ventilation flaps in the rear section of the vehicle roof. To rectify: Remove the blanking plugs and install new roof rack blanking plug seals. Install new ventilation flaps. G. Water ingress via the sliding door:
Cause: Water can enter the interior via a damaged watershield and an inadequate seal at the upper sliding door guide. To rectify: Install a new watershield and seal the upper sliding door guide with additional sealer. H. Water ingress via the rear side windows:
Cause: Water can enter the interior via an incorrectly-installed rear quarter window glass weatherstrip. To rectify: Correct the installation position of the rear quarter window glass weatherstrip and seal with additional sealer. I. Water ingress via the rear door central high mounted stoplamp:
Cause: The stoplamp opening on the rear cargo door outer sheet metal is out of tolerances causing insufficient seal area.


................................................................................................


3/11/11 Water ingress into the interior; Windnoise from the front door; Upper front door weatherstrip loose or comes adrift on the A-pillar sheet metal
Water ingress into the interior, windnoise from the front door or that the upper front door weatherstrip becomes loose or comes adrift on the A-pillar sheet metal, the probable cause is poor installation of the weatherstrip in conjunction with minor adhesion of the adhesive strip.
To rectify this concern, the affected upper front door weatherstrip should be renewed. To improve the adhesion primer should be applied to the installation area.

.....................................................................................................


3/9/05 Water entering into the interior; Noises coming from the area of the load space roof opening panel
There have been various concerns where water enters into the interior and over noises coming from the area of the load space roof opening panel:
1. Water entering from the D-pillar upper sheet metal connection points into the interior
Cause: Gap between flanges because of insufficient sealant applied in production. To rectify: Seal the affected areas with clinched flange sealer. 2. Water entering into the interior between the weatherstrips of the load space roof opening panel and the body
Cause: Water can enter the interior because the seal gap is too large. To rectify: Loosen the tail roof opening panel striker screws and move the load space roof opening panel striker upwards to decrease seal gap. 3. Water entering from the sheet metal connection points of the drain channel into the interior.
Cause: Insufficient sealant applied in production. To rectify: Seal the affected areas with clinched flange sealer. 4. Water entering via the weatherstrip on the rear doors into the interior
Cause: Water entering the rear part of the loading space may be caused by an incorrectly installed weatherstrip on one or both of the rear doors. To rectify: Realign the flange angels. 5. Water entering into the interior from the load space roof opening panel watherstrip
Cause: Inadequate sealing of weatherstrip. To rectify: Apply clinched flange sealer to the inside of the weatherstrip. 6. Water entering into the interior from the load space roof opening panel weatherstrip
Cause: Inadequate sealing of weatherstrip. To rectify: Apply clinched flange sealer to the end of the weatherstrip carrier. 7. Water entering the rear part of the loading space from under the flap of the weatherstrip carrier
Cause: Inadequate sealing of weatherstrip. To rectify: Apply clinched flange sealer to the flap. 8. Noises from the load space roof opening panel (only vehicles build up to 05.10.2004 (build code 4Y))
Cause: Load space roof opening panel hinges not robust enough. To rectify: Install new load space roof opening panel hinges. Vehicles built from 06.10.2004 (build code 4Y) onwards have already the new hinges installed.

..................................................................................................

all the best.mark

Woah thanks, i did look at some of the Ford documentation on water ingress into the driver and/or passenger footwell and I carried out some of the items mentioned there and I did have a look through that thread already but most of it either didn't apply as the areas of damp were different or were for MK1's, I will have another look though to see if I missed anything.

I've not tasted the water because I don't want to die if it is antifreeze but it smells, feels and looks just like normal water and the coolant level still hasn't gone down since I marked the header tank quite a few weeks ago now.

My only real proactive thing I can do this weekend is put some sealant around that AC drain because I guess there is a small chance that AC water is coming out of it (or rain water is getting in) and it's just drying up very quickly in that area before I can see it. And that's about all I can think of doing this weekend.

[metalworker0]

Watch this video "not connect"..seems that when the pipe gets blocked internally it fills the whole chamber up ..and it starts leaking elsewhere .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVR5um8Dzj0

all the best.mark

[Ripp]

Watch this video "not connect"..seems that when the pipe gets blocked internally it fills the whole chamber up ..and it starts leaking elsewhere .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVR5um8Dzj0

all the best.mark

Thanks, I'll watch that when I get home. I ordered some UV leak detection dye that you can apparently spray on any given area and it'll show up under UV light anywhere where there is trace amounts of water so I'm going to see if I can utilize that somehow too.

[Ripp]

And just to add I did have another look under the carpet again yesterday and it's the same story again, the same damp patch that is isolated from everything around it's perimeter and also from above and below as I still can't see any traces of how exactly water is getting to that one area. The blue tissue is bone dry all around the area as per last time I looked. Very weird.

[Ripp]

Watch this video "not connect"..seems that when the pipe gets blocked internally it fills the whole chamber up ..and it starts leaking elsewhere .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVR5um8Dzj0

all the best.mark

Interesting video, not sure I want to pop that hose off and drain that tank into the footwell because the last thing I want to do is add more water into the cabin lol What I will do though is order a long flexible pipe cleaning brush and see if I can feed it up the drain hose slowly from underneath the van and see if that does anything. The whole area covered in insulation directly underneath the centre console is bone dry though so not entirely sure this is the cause in my case but I'll definitely rod that drain hose and take a closer look up under the console and see what might be up there that could be leaking.

That dye I've ordered might also help ID the cause, apparently I can just spray it everywhere then shine a UV light on it when it's dark outside and it'll show me anywhere where there is trace amounts of water.

Also I've just this minute rolled back the carpet and secured it up against the bottom of the drivers seat with bungee cords and covered the floor in fresh blue tissue and I plan on leaving the carpet rolled back while driving in the rain for the next few days in the hope that that might help clarify what's going on as it'll take the damp carpet out of the equation for a few days as it's not longer sitting on blue tissue.

[Ripp]

For what it's worth the drain hose from here down is not blocked, I know there isn't much hose after this point as it's basically just a hole into the exhaust tunnel but pouring some water down it from here at least showed me that there is nothing blocking the very end of it as water poured out from underneath the van right away, that saved me having to get under the van at least. I'll order a flexible brush and rod that pipe from that point upwards and see if it reveals anything, i'm fairly confident water isn't coming from that area as like I said previously it's really dry in that area but it's worth another look as I have eyes on that pipe at least once every weekend nowadays lol so no harm shoving a brush up there.

[Ripp]

It's been a while since I've had time to pull the carpet up again and check in on the state of things under there because I've been busy with a project on my house.

I left fresh dry blue tissue under there last time and since then it's rained a fair bit so I was pleasantly surprised to find it all dry under there when I had a look yesterday. We also had a couple of nights where the temp dropped down to -2°C which left ice all over the windscreen and I didn't have any condensation anywhere.

Not entirely sure what to make of that other than the fact that either the initial small leak I fixed on the door membrane was the cause all along or some kind of one time event let a load of water into the cabin before bought the van and I've been dealing with the residual water from that over the past few months.

Being in the UK there will be plenty more opportunities for driving in the rain in the coming months so next time it has a good soaking I'll pull the floor up and have another look.

[metalworker0]

mine is doing it now ...and mine is a bigger problem ..as it never dries out because it has rubber floor covering.

all the best...mark