Subframe snapped last night.

[Boghopper]

I was driving along, three of us, one in the back, through the country lanes; and I noticed a pair of pheasants were in the hedge. I knew they would wait for me to get upon them, then dart out in front of the van, so I slowed down a bit and lo-and-behold, when right on top of them the old-dear ran out into the road. Anyway, I braked really hard, didn't skid, but was scrubbing the speed of pretty quickly. There was a grating noise and the N/S/F of the van dropped and the wheel twisted and jammed under the arch. Went to move and the van wouldn't budge. Got out to take alook and the subframe, where the wishbone connects, had torn off and ripped the driveshaft out of the gearbox. I would never have believed it if I hadn't seen it. I have never heard of this happening, either.

It was a good job the pheasants were there and I had slowed down as If it had sheared off when doing sixty I would have probably dragged the wheel under the van and locked up and rolled.

Some hellish job getting it home with the wheel bent under the arch and no steering, bloody nightmare! Could have been worse though. The Lord works in mysterious ways.

[Boghopper]

I am going to replace my main fuel, feed pipe whilst the subframe is off. It is starting to go, especially on the bend, right behind the subframe. There is a female connector at the tank and one behind the engine, I hope the are auto shut-off connectors. The return pipe wasn't , when I did that one, it started syphoning from the tank.

[Boghopper]

Just an update. I have been awaiting parts and they seem to take an eternity to arrive these days, even Royal Mail , who used to be pretty fast.

Have been at war with the fuel pipes hitting the subframe, especially the large feed pipe. It's like their run was decided after the van was built. Ford have stuck little pieces of foam everywhere. The other day I noticed, which I've never seen before, was a little slither of edging trim along the housing of the whishbone, rear mount. This is to stop the rolled edge of the bush housing gouging the fuel feed. I had the subframe on and off, seven times, before I was satisfied that the subframe wasn't going to crush the new pipe, as it was tightened up. I am now onto the N/S driveshaft, and as usual, it will not move. I now have the van totally stripped on that side, shock and everything; and the subframe removed. I even purxchased the equivalent of Ford's special slide hammer tool: 204-226, 205-047 and 204-226-01. Contary to what Ford 'don't mention' is this tool cannot be used with the subframe attached, that's why I now have the subframe off, for the tenth time. Suffice to say, the tool fits perfectly behind the inner, C.V. joint cup, but still it will not budge. I have tried everything, brute force and tact, I have had someone turning the diff ten degress everytime I use the tool, still won't move. I am at the point of replacing the gearbox now as I just cannot remove the cup. I have a spare gearbox at hand, never tried it though, so will have to hope it's okay. Do not know what else to do as I simply cannot get the circlip to release, no matter what I do. I do not know what else I can do now as I have perfect access and the special tool, and still it will not budge..




Subframe snapped, but still on the van.



Subframe off the van, what a mess! Quite distubed me, the state of it.



Brake pipes, fuel, feed and return, just squeezing past the rear of the subframe and bush housing.



Ford's 'bit of edging trim' along the bush housing, rolled edge.



New subframe back out. The slide hammer still couldn't be used until the front shock, and knuckle, were also removed.



Only, once the whole N/S front end was rtemoved could acces for the tool be given. You can see the puller behind the cup and the hole where the slide hammer screws in. Still won't ge the cup out though.

[Altransit]

Sounds like you're having a mare of a job!

Good luck, fingers crossed for you

[metalworker0]

well i tried about 10 tyre levers on mine ..only one worked and that was this old vintage one ..and i did not use it like a lever ..i taped it in like a wedge between the cup and gearbox strengthening ribs. it did not take much just a few gentle taps got it out

download/file.php?id=50669&mode=view


Subframe looks very corroded , no wonder it snapped , must have been permanently parked over a puddle of water

what condition is the rest of the van if the subframes like that!

it may be possible to remove the other drive shaft and then hammer it out from the other side through the hole that the other driveshaft occupied.

ps ..never mind the pheasant a bad pot hole would have busted that

oh yeah, one guy here ..came in with as problem that the fuel pipes had holed in the bends in the subframe area

all the best.mark

[metalworker0]

these videos show whats going on ..I'm afraid once you force the clip it, to come out whilst hanging the wrong way up , it may now be bent and distorted

drive shaft installation / removal tip

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYHxT8aItpY

his follow up
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qo4aeTEFGZs

all the best.mark

[Boghopper]

Well, It eventually released itself! I just made myself comfortable and used the slide-hammer to give it a blow, then rotating it about ten degrees before giving it another blow. It took me about two and a half hours before it just came out. It never popped out though, it had to be dragged out.

The old subframe is looking a bit worse as it has been sat outside for over a week and is turning to rust. I went over it with a hammer and chisel to see if the deterioration was anywhere else, but it wasn't, only in that area. It has rotted from the inside as it is of two skins with a few holes on the top to let loads of water in.




I 2K epoxied my new subframe. then gave it a few coats of 2K black, then Upol gravitex, then waxoil, including inside



I just sat there, for what seemed like an eternity, like a moron, hitting, rotating, hitting, rotating, bloody nightmare!



My new subframe, which has been on and off about nine times, now. I think I will put the new N/S wishbone on tomorrow, before putting it back on. I had left it off to aid the drive-shaft installation, but as the new drive-shaft is now in I'll put it on as one. It does make it a lot heavier to manoeuvre, though.



The underside of my van.


It could be worse though:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLBaPcgnT-I

[metalworker0]

All good then

Can you do me a favour

Now you have the old drive shaft ..that is no good

Take the tripod off and attempt to take one of the three bearings off ...the clip arrowed may be the way to do this , i don't know ?

You see my first drive shaft i did, i washed in paraffin ,...and had no idea how to get new grease into each roller ..and was afraid of taking them off and maybe buggering them ,

Can you find out if these rollers come off easily and whats inside ...i know other drive shafts have lots of needle rollers inside of them ..i suspect this design has non and just rolls on its self, metal to metal like a rose joint.

I'm going to do the other side shortly ..and i want to do it properly

Picture of mine, arrow shows the possible clip that holds it together.

[Boghopper]

Yes, I'll take a look.

I have a not very nice noise coming from my gearbox when I turn the wheel hub, by hand, with the car jacked up. The drive-shaft seems to go tight, then loose, then tight again, once every 360 degree turn. Is it becuase of the angle of the N/S drive-shaft, because if I put the jack under the hub and jack it up, to straighten the drive-shaft up, it goes?

Is that the inner, or outer joint, that that tripod came from ?

[metalworker0]

its the inner ..the outer joint is a totally different design.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You're tight slack problem ---is this with the big nut torqued up to 320nm

if that has not been done yet, the wheel bearing will not run true until its been done.

well at least apply some toque to it ..to see if it goes away

all the best.mark

[Boghopper]

My drive-shafts, which are J.& R. ones, have the needles setup.

I think it might have something to do with the angle of the shaft and the impact on the inner joiint because, as mentioned, if I just bring it up 1/2" with the trolley jack it vanishes.

Anyway, we will see in a minute, as I am now going to bleed the power steering then, do my tracking with a brick-line and see if the gearbox is kaput.

Putting the other wishbone on and trying to re-attach it all in one go was a great deal harder than with only one wishbone on. It seems to make it a lot heavier and far more awkward.

[metalworker0]

Thanks for having a look ..those needle bearing types don't swivel , so would have less articulation than mine, so i suppose if the drive shaft was at an angle that its not normally at, it would bind.

bet having a pit is a great help.

all the best.mark

[Boghopper]

Yes, I would not do it without the pit. I permanently damaged myself building it though, snapped a tendon in my neck diging through 6ft of rock, by hand, even a J.C.B. wouldn't touch it.

I don't like the fact that the noise seems to be coming from within the box, though. It will just be my luck that I will need to put another box on: one a year seems about right!

[Boghopper]

The noise was different this morning , it seemed to be eminating from the outer C.V. joint, rather than the gearbox. It had turned into a sort of clicking noise after I had put the van back on its wheels and rolled it back and forth. So, I jacked up the N/S again, took the wheel off and tried to locate anything amiss, but could find nothing! I was turning the hub trying to see if the wheel bearing had been damaged, or anything and the noise seemed to abate, until it just vanished, really bizarre. Yesterday, it was a pretty nasty clicking nose that seemed to be literally making, what seemed like, something in the box literally jump up and back down, and now, it is gone. I got the fuel system primed again and started her up, got her outside and took her for a spin, smooth as silk! I was quite shocked as I was convinced that the box had been damaged, the diff in particular. I can only think that there was something, one of those needles, not sitting right in one of the C.V. joints and causing the bearing to skid and send a shock up through the shaft and it has since settled. Was it running dry and spinning it has allowed the grease to lubricate it, dunno! I took her up to 50 m.p.h. but could detect nothing. Will it come back?

Once I have checked for leaks underneath, tomorrow I am going to waxoil it all. My M.O.T. runs out at the end of this month.

[Boghopper]

My van passed M.O.T. on Saturday. I thought it was going to fail on the hand brake but it didn't. I have some new shoe tensioners and, after fifteen years I have finally worked out how the fine adjustment works on them.