Mk7, D+ Engine on solution.

[kriskrz]

Hi I have a Transit MK7, I have found the brown wire, and the engine on signal is the last thing I need to connect to my NDS Powerservice.
https://www.roadpro.co.uk/userfiles/PDFs/product%20information/NDS/20180924%20PWS%20Plus%26Gold%20v3%20%5BENG%5D%20smaller.pdf
I have read this https://www.manualslib.com/manual/831259/Ford-2006-Transit-Body-And-Equipment-Mounting-Section.html?page=133#manual multiple times now. According to NDS I can use either engine on or d +, though d + is preferable. I think for the meantime I can connect it directly but want to do what you did with the fuse and relay soon. Do you know of any further in depth links I can read through. In particular I have questions where did you get the positive, you said a fuse box and which one or is going from the starter batterie good too? And what type of relay did you use?
Thank you in advance
Kristina

[Crazyjnz]

Great Post,
I'm in the process of doing the same thing for my DC2DC charger, A note for the OP and others looking to do the same thing and get a 12v d+ (engine run) signal.
On the drivers side there is another cable with the spade connector taped up that is a 12v ignition feed. The wire is blue and it can run 2 relays . I found this info in the BEMM
I hope this helps someone

[Kwiks1lver]

Hey everyone, good timing on this post - literally wired mine up today.

I used a 40A dc2dc charger from Renogy. For the D+ signal I used the relay pictured and connected it to a 6 blade fuse box which I’ve mounted on the back of the seat console which is hooked up to the customer connection point (CCP).

All working perfectly and way easier than faffing about trying to find the engine on cable.

I also plan to put a switch on the d+ simulator line so I can switch off the whole array when doing shorter trips so as not to drain the vehicle batteries.

[johnporter11]

Can I just clarify what you've done. Your vehicle is LHD. You've taken the positive from the CCP down at the left hand side of the seat.
Regarding the negative leads, where are they attached? I note you haven't used the stud on the chassis side of the voltage monitor on the negative battery post.
Where exactly is the fuse box you mounted?
And is it connected to the same CCP terminal you appear to have used for the charger positive?
I'm afraid I haven't got to grips with this whole thread. I don't understand how the D+ signal is generated.
I have a very similar setup to yours, but RHD and using the Renogy 50a DCDC with MPPT. I attached the D+ charger lead to an ignition live in the fuse box under the dash. The positive comes direct from the battery, with the breaker mounted in the same place as yours. My system seems to be working fine.

[Kwiks1lver]

In answer to this question from johnporter11:

Can I just clarify what you've done. Your vehicle is LHD. You've taken the positive from the CCP down at the left hand side of the seat.No, I connected the dc-dc charger directly to the battery terminal as it needs a higher amp fuse (75-80) than the one on the CCP (60). See below.
Regarding the negative leads, where are they attached? I note you haven't used the stud on the chassis side of the voltage monitor on the negative battery post.I don't quite understand what you mean by this. Which stud are you referring to?
Where exactly is the fuse box you mounted? See attached picture
And is it connected to the same CCP terminal you appear to have used for the charger positive? The fuse box is connected to the CCP and grounded to the chassis.
I'm afraid I haven't got to grips with this whole thread. I don't understand how the D+ signal is generated. This is generated when the engine is running, it tells the dc-dc device that it's safe to start charging without draining the leisure batteries
I have a very similar setup to yours, but RHD and using the Renogy 50a DCDC with MPPT. I attached the D+ charger lead to an ignition live in the fuse box under the dash. The positive comes direct from the battery, with the breaker mounted in the same place as yours. My system seems to be working fine.

I have a separate MPPT (60a) which is not pictured, so I can't speak to the differences between the two devices, however I think I read that your device only charges a max of 25a from each the PV & the alternator, so in theory you'd also be able to connect yours via the CCP, with each point rated for 60A. You're right though, as I'm based in Germany, I have a LHD. I've attached a pic of the fuse box attached to the CCP:

ccp.jpg

This is grounded to the chassis of the vehicle, purely for convenience - I could've also run it back to the battery. I have since added grounded my leisure batteries to this same chassis point.

In this circuit for the dc-dc charger, I am only using the fuse box* to power the voltage sensing relay. This device is designed to detect when the vehicle battery is above 14v (i.e. when the engine is running) and to signal the dc-dc charger that it can start drawing power from the vehicle battery to charge the leisure batteries. I opted to do it this way so I wouldn't have to run a cable from the passenger footwell all the way to my setup, which as you can see is behind the driver's seat). Without this functionality, the dc-dc charge would drain the vehicle battery as soon as the engine stops running.
On the dc-dc charger, there is an input and an output side, each with a positive and negative cable. The "input" side is connected directly to the appropriate vehicle battery terminals and the output side to my leisure batteries.
Hope this clarifies my setup a bit, but let me know if you have any questions! I'm not an expert on this topic at all, I have just read the instruction manual and done my best to get things together - it seems to be working ok so far though!

(*the fuse box here is separate to my leisure fusebox which is used for things like lights, fan, fridge etc. in the back).

[johnporter11]

Thanks for the great reply. I also went direct to the battery terminal as the CCP fuse was "only" 60A and I believe the fuse is very difficult to access.
My set-up is similar to yours in that I kept the DCDC charger mega close to the vehicle battery. My two 100AH EFB batteries are directly behind the bulkhead.

IMG_5271a.jpg

Regarding the negative connection, I chose to use the battery terminal as I believe it more reliable. However, as seen in previous threads, it must be on the "chassis side" of the battery monitor.

IMG_5278.JPG

Regarding D+, I couldn't work out how to connect this. I used an ignition live from the fuse box. I realise this is not the same as D+ and may not be correct. But I don't understand the technique you have used. I believe the DCDC will not start charging the leisure batteries until the vehicle battery is at the correct voltage (giving the vehicle battery priority). But I'd still prefer to use the correct D+. Can you elaborate on the wiring of the relay?
I believe the Renogy 50A DCDC charges at 50% when there is any solar input, hence the 25A you refer to. So I have fitted an isolator/breaker to the solar positive to disconnect when solar input is low and I want 50A from the Renogy charger.

IMG_5277.JPG

[Kwiks1lver]

Looks like a decent setup John, good job! I've not heard about terminating on the chassis side of the terminal. I'd better look into that I guess!

One question on your setup - why haven't you gone for a bigger breaker for your solar isolator? 20A won't get you far if it's gonna push 25A through. Or have you got a lower-rated PV cable?

[johnporter11]

Looks like a decent setup John, good job! I've not heard about terminating on the chassis side of the terminal. I'd better look into that I guess!

One question on your setup - why haven't you gone for a bigger breaker for your solar isolator? 20A won't get you far if it's gonna push 25A through. Or have you got a lower-rated PV cable?

Thanks for that. I've got one 175w solar panel. 6mm2 cable. I guess that there'll never be 25A coming down that cable. We had three weeks of wall-to-wall sunshine in August and never had a problem. I believe that I can get up to 50A from the alternator when there's NO solar (e.g. driving at night, or with the solar breaker open during the day), and up to 25A from the alternator with solar also in play.
I've got an 80A breaker from the van battery to the DCDC, and a 60A from DCDC to leisure batteries.

Regarding the negative connection: Airthies has it on THIS thread! There's also a video link.
But getting back to the relay set-up, could you walk me through the wiring and connections? And I'm not understanding what the brown wire does. Mine is a Mk8 so I'll have to check for that wire.

By the way, what makes you think you need to switch off the D+ "when doing shorter trips so as not to drain the vehicle batteries"? Are you afraid the leisure battery will take too much? I thought DCDC would always give the van battery priority.

[johnporter11]

As a matter of interest, can you see the first red light on the Renogy DCC50S panel. It's flashing slow red. That means the leisure batteries are fully charged and it's trickle charging the van battery. Very useful for winter lay-off.
You'll notice on the pictures a 230v socket (supply brought up from the mains hook-up at the back of the van) for manual mains charging. I'm hoping I'll not need it now, but I'll keep a close eye on the state of charge of both battery systems if the van's out of use this winter.
My leisure batteries are showing 13.11v on the watt meter this evening.

[Kwiks1lver]

Seems like a decent system. I've got a bit more solar (2x175W) and also have a 16A breaker which I use as an isolator switch if I need to disconnect it at all.

I also recently installed this https://uk.renogy.com/500a-battery-monitor-with-shunt-sampler-coulomb-meter/ for monitoring the batteries and it's brilliant. I found the measuring on the MPPT and other voltmeters to be pretty unreliable, but this thing is a god-send and was easy enough to hook up.

Re: D+... In short, I couldn't be bothered to faff around in the footwell looking for a d+ signal cable so opted for this relay instead https://votronic.de/index.php/en/products/peripheral-units/d-simulator#d-simulator. If you've got easier access to the d+ cable or want to save the £40, you can definitely get it from the footwell, but it wasn't easy for me to find it at all (it was in the middle of a really tight cable loom) and I didn't fancy the cost/hassle of running a cable all that way when I knew I could use this relay.

If your Mk8 is a euro6 diesel, you might need to get the 'pro' model. In short, there's a positive and negative cable for this relay (which gives it power and lets it check the voltage) and another cable (which in my case is also red, but with hindsight, I should've used a different colour) that acts as the d+ signal. I don't know if this is a specific pattern or special signal or if it's just an 'always on' signal, but the idea here is that the signal only flows when the batteries are above 14(ish)V - i.e. they're being charged by the alternator while driving.

To answer your question, I plan to put a switch into this system because I don't trust any of these devices to not prioritise the leisure batteries over the vehicle battery, even if it's supposed to. I do a lot of shorter trips in between longer ones and am very aware of general Transit (mk7) issues with the batteries not holding their charge well when only doing short trips, so I don't want to exacerbate this issue by draining it more so when it's not necessary.

[Airthies]

D+ signal wire is negative switched.
Which means, if you want a positive signal, you need a relay set up with a positive feed to the coil and the switch terminal (these can be linked depending where you take your feed from).
The negative side of the coil goes to the "D+" engine on terminal which will ground the relay when running and give you 12v+ out from the relay switch contact.

Re the 60A CCP, in the BEMM it is stated you can connect to more than one point effectively doubling or tripling the amount of load available.

Sent from my Armor 8 Pro using Tapatalk

[johnporter11]

Friggin Hell, this is frying my head. It's just that I've fitted a Renogy DCC50S to my Mk8 with the D+ signal wire (from the charger) connected to a fuse location which is live with the ignition switch ed on, but the engine not running. And everything seems to be working. Have I done the wrong thing?

[Kwiks1lver]

Hi John,

I think it's important that you use either the d+ line in the passenger footwell or a d+ simulator, not just any fuse which is only on when the engine is running.
I might be wrong, but I imagine that there's more to the d+ than just "on"; I think it sends a specific pattern/signal (think: Morse Code) and therefore, simply wiring to a standard live cable isn't enough.

[johnporter11]

That's what I thought. It's a signal, not a live feed. I'm also concerned that there is a second or two between being live and the alternator running.
The Votronic D+ Simulator Pro seems to be available from RoadPro at £65. It seems to be a neat idea. It senses the voltage and also the vibrations of the engine running.
I may not even have that D+ line in the footwell of the Mk8. And I don't intend to hoking under the seat for other one. To be honest, even if I did, I still haven't a grip of what to do, how to do, and why.

[Kwiks1lver]

That's exactly why I didn't go for the "real" d+ signal cable in the footwell. It was part of a huge cable loom that I didn't want to try taking apart! Good luck with it!