loss of compression after timing belt change - Help

[Kyle2643]

I've recently changed the time in belt on my transit Custom however I made a big mistake in the process and didn't pin the cams before taking the belt off and the crankshat was spun independently of the cams so everything was out of sync.

In attempts to remedy the situation I removed the injector from the number one cylinder and made sure the Pistons were set to halfway so that there was no valve contact. I then span the cams until both locking pins were in place.

After this, I make sure the time in Mark between the crankshaft pulley and the idler pulley met where they should before putting the belt back on and then spun everything round by hand 14 times to make sure it arrived back in the same position and I could put the pins back in the cams which I could.

However, after all this after briefly running for five seconds or so the engine cut out and now sounds like it's got no compression at all. Something is clearly gone wrong here but I'm just not sure exactly what I've done wrong at this point. My next step would be to take the rocker cover/cams off and see if the rockers are broken due to contact with pistons.

However, I still just need to know what it is that went wrong. I had the cam pins in and timing marks lined up before attempting to start it up. Any help woyld be most appriciated.

[metalworker0]

IF an event happens were the valves did contact the pistons .. then the cam lobes would spin on the camshafts, rendering it useless.

The lobes are a press fit on the camshaft ... and there are no separate camshafts available .. camshaft carrier and camshafts are only available as a complete unit.

it is usual if this event happened to also cause rockers to snap off or crack.

There is no information or procedure on the checking of the camshaft carrier, other than seeing a new one side by side with an old damaged one.

There have been cases of just the rockers snapped and cracked .. but rare

all the best.mark

[gotgcoalman]

Check you haven't timed it up 180 degrees out.



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[Frag]

You’ll be pleased to know,a perfectly timed panther with no issues can do this at any point….

Usually if stalled just after started when cold,or if revved up and then cut out.
If the battery is flat or low,or slow cranking speed also makes this problem worse.
It will spin over with no compression at all.

Best thing to do,get a boost pack or charger on,keep cycling the ignition on and off(without cranking,this runs the in tank fuel pump for 30 seconds) for say 4/5 times,then try to start it,it will slowly start to pick up 1 cylinder at a time,and hopefully fire before you reach 10 no starts and get a ‘crank time exceeded’ message and have to wait 30 mins.

If there is something wrong with the timing,you’ll usually get a service now message and spanner on dash when cranking.
But if you don’t have that,try the above.
Keep pressing throttle while cranking and listen to engine,IF it starts,try to hold it at around 2k,don’t rev it and don’t let it idle straight away,if it cuts out your back to square 1 again.
Once it’s run for 2/3 minutes,slowly let it down to idle,let it run a while before keying it off.

[Kyle2643]

I had already taken the cam cover off to check for damage. I was a bit scared to do anything else until I knew that everything was okay and there's no sign of any damage no broken rockers or spun lobes so that's really good news.

About it being timed 180° out, is this even possible? As I can't see how it could happen if you have the pins in the cams which are set the exhaust and compression stroke they can only be in one position with the pins in. Set the time and marks on the crank shaft pulley and the idler gave me up and the pins are in place at the top. I don't see how you can be 180 out but if I'm wrong, please explain it to me.

Also thanks for the information, Frag. Once I get it back together, I'll give that a shot. If you have any more advice for me, it'll be most appreciated.

[metalworker0]

does this video help

yes i know its single over head cam but same principles

crank goes around twice for every camshaft rotation .. so therefo, i think one place in those two revolutions where it on the compression stroke and one place where its on exhaust stroke you want the compression stroke one if ive explained this right

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xyceeg

looking aT my answer above ... um this is quite complicated to explain .. so i got an AI answer
ignore distributor references

In a diesel engine, "timing being 180 degrees out" means the fuel injection is happening at the completely wrong point in the engine cycle (e.g., during exhaust instead of compression), causing severe performance issues like no start, massive power loss, rough running, and potential engine damage, often due to a mechanical error like a jumped timing chain or belt, leading to fuel spraying at the wrong time for combustion.
What it Means:
Start of Injection (SOI): Diesel timing is about when the injector sprays fuel into the cylinder, not spark timing.
180 Degrees Off: Instead of injecting fuel near the top of the compression stroke for ignition, the injection occurs at the opposite point, essentially during the exhaust stroke or when the piston is moving down.
Why it's a Problem:
No Combustion: Fuel sprayed at the wrong time won't ignite efficiently, or at all, leading to incomplete combustion or fuel just exiting the exhaust.
Symptoms: You'll experience difficulty starting, significant power loss, black smoke, poor fuel economy, and potential knocking or misfires.
Common Causes:
Timing Chain/Belt Issues: A stretched or jumped timing chain/belt is a primary culprit, misaligning the camshaft and crankshaft.
Fuel Pump Malfunction: Incorrectly set or faulty fuel injection pump timing.
In Summary:
When diesel timing is 180 degrees out, the engine is fundamentally out of sync, spraying fuel when it should be exhausting, leading to major operational failure and potential engine damage.


all the best.mark

[gotgcoalman]

Cheers mark.

Saved me typing .



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[metalworker0]

as regards your rockers or cam lobes .. you can not see any of them on this engine without removing the cam carrier .

all the best.mark

[Kyle2643]

Thanks again for the reply and I'll look into it more. In the meantime, the link is to a video of how it sounded before I dismantled everything again it sounds totally flat to me. Like there is no compression.

And yes I did remove the cam carrier today and there is no sign of spun lobes or rocker damge and the valves all sit at the exact same level. You can get an idea but putting a straight edge accross the top of them.

https://youtu.be/6EweOylhtpg